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Post by limoncello on Nov 17, 2013 17:43:56 GMT 1
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Nov 17, 2013 17:48:07 GMT 1
Intro the new triple seven Tall statements, half a meter wider cabin than what...? 12% less fuel burn per seat than any other aeroplane?
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Taliesin
Final Assembly Line stage 1
In Thrust we trust
Posts: 228
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Post by Taliesin on Nov 17, 2013 18:36:51 GMT 1
12% less fuel burn per seat than any other aeroplane? Yea, that was my thought as well.. if you cram 450 people into a 777X and only 489 into the A380, then I'm willing to believe those numbers. That would only be a paper exercise of course, because the levels of comfort wouldn't be remotely comparable. But then again, that's the typical Boeing marketing song.
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Post by Flying Dutchman on Nov 17, 2013 21:33:36 GMT 1
Maybe compared to the present 777
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Taliesin
Final Assembly Line stage 1
In Thrust we trust
Posts: 228
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Post by Taliesin on Nov 18, 2013 8:03:47 GMT 1
Maybe compared to the present 777 No, the video clearly says "Any other airplane. Any."
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Post by Flying Dutchman on Nov 18, 2013 15:55:57 GMT 1
Any "competing" air plane. Would A350-1000 be competing?
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Taliesin
Final Assembly Line stage 1
In Thrust we trust
Posts: 228
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Post by Taliesin on Nov 18, 2013 16:07:51 GMT 1
Yes of course. I'll believe that the 777X beats the A351 by some margin, in fact, it absolutely has to, otherwise it loses its right to exist. A bigger airplane has to justify its bigger operational and financial risk by being more economical than the competition, this is true for the A380, the 777X and any other airplane. If the 777X beat the A380 by any margin, it would kill it.
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Post by Flying Dutchman on Nov 18, 2013 17:13:18 GMT 1
Yes and it will be newer than A350-1000 when completed. But if it beats A380 it would still be possible to upgrade the A380 with new engines, modern wing-tips and lighter materials etcetera. (If worth the investment.)And the Boeing 747-8I will get a even tougher time.
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Taliesin
Final Assembly Line stage 1
In Thrust we trust
Posts: 228
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Post by Taliesin on Nov 18, 2013 20:35:47 GMT 1
Yes and it will be newer than A350-1000 when completed. Well, "new" is relative. The 777X will have new engines, a greater wingspan, new materials and wider cabin, but all these innovations are constrained in the design of the old 777. Granted, the 777 is an amazing airplane, but the 777X is not as good as it could have been, were it a brand new design. The A350-1000 on the other hand is all-new. But if it beats A380 it would still be possible to upgrade the A380 with new engines, modern wing-tips and lighter materials etcetera. I don't think new engines and lighter materials would cut it, if the 777X actually beat the A380. The A380 is said to beat the current 77W by some 20%, my estimate is that the 777X will come within 5-6% of the A380's CASM. That's very close. New engines might do the trick, or they might not. I don't believe we'll see new wingtips, the A380 is restricted to a span of 80m, so there's not much in terms of raked wingtips you can do. But people often overestimate what you can do with new wingtips. For new wingtips to give you a lot of savings, the old wingtips have to be pretty bad. The A380's wingtips though are only 10 years old. It stands to reason that they do their job sufficiently well. Raked wingtips are the latest rage in the aviation world, but really, wingtip fences work fine, too. Airbus incorporates all kinds of weight savings into their airplanes all the time, so newer and lighter materials are practically a given, this is common practice.
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ghorn
Outfitting in Hamburg
Posts: 993
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Post by ghorn on Nov 19, 2013 20:46:22 GMT 1
What intrigues me is how Boeing will manage the transition from 77W to 778/779.
They have messed up on the 767 to 787 transition to the benefit of the A330 and will not want to fail again.
I reckon there are 300-400 production slots available for the 77W before the 778/9 are in full production, will Boeing be able to sell them or will they have to cut the 77W production rate ?
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