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Post by ff on Jan 9, 2019 7:28:29 GMT 1
Haha haha, conspericy theory again.
Chinese government sees HNA as a pure business matter, it does not owned by state government, and it associates with Soros as well.
It is much easier to control Hong Kong by pulling less money to support its economy than buying a little airline. Remember it is a city on the downward trend and nobody can stop this.
The central government no longer see it as an asset, but a trouble.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Jan 9, 2019 10:41:59 GMT 1
Chinese government sees HNA as a pure business matter I'm not sure anything of importance is seen as a 'pure' business matter in China. Though the HNA group is a private one, China will keep an eye on it, even if only to force it to comply with state policies and serve as an exemple to other private groups. The central government no longer see it as an asset, but a trouble. Possibly, in which case it cannot be seen as a 'pure' business matter. There could also be a perceived difference between real estate bought in speculation (most of HNA assets) and airlines. At least, some funding was provided to HNA airlines in December, allowing them to take delivery of several A330s. |
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Post by ff on Jan 9, 2019 11:26:37 GMT 1
I know I told this forum that one of the state backed bank led the way to provide the funding for A330s, and someone from here quoted me on A-liner as well.
It is one of the most hated company among passengers, due to its poor service. The Chinese authority do not want to save it, when HNA ignored all government instructions and expanding rapidly around the world. HNA believed it can escape from government control, based on its private company identity.
They should know that when they escalated 300 billion RMB debt, soon after the central government decided to restrict bank debt, they will be the first one to face trouble, the loans are no longer been renewed.
All I can say on HAN matter is, there are more people in China want it to be bankrupt than save it. They see this as a punishment for a company believed it can ignore government guidance.
I agree, nothing in China is pure business, and Hainan province government is trying to save it as well. But due to the shareholding arrangement HNA has, it is unlikely the central government will change its mind of HNA very soon - because it can not be bought back to state/public hands.
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Post by ff on Jan 9, 2019 11:50:10 GMT 1
Forgot to mention, HNA has sold majority shares in a number of domestic sub-airlines they've established in the past five/six years, and the shares went to the local government which owns part of the airlines anyway. These has been treated as the good asset of HNA group and easy to get rid off to pay for the debt.
Obviously this is much trickier for HX, it is unlikely HNA can sell HX to Hong Kong government.
They are so desperate to sell at the moment, this is the only mission the current CEO is doing (he was half retired, due to the death of ex-CEO in France, he has to come out and do the job again). By selling all non-core business, he is trying to plead the central government to relax funding.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Jan 9, 2019 12:10:51 GMT 1
My only remark on ff's posts above is that I don't know what is HNA's core business. One could pretty well say that it's real estate, aviation being only an attempt at diversification ...
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Post by ff on Jan 9, 2019 14:45:35 GMT 1
The core business was aviation, hence the name of HNA Group was based on Hainan Airlines.
Over the years, aviation become the way they negotiate with Chinese domestic governments to start tourism, logistics and estate development. When the borrowing out of control, they were buying so many companies overseas, that's where the trouble started.
The CEO is now selling every asset trying to back to the core business - Hainan Airlines.
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Post by ca350 on Jan 9, 2019 16:35:24 GMT 1
All I can say on HAN matter is, there are more people in China want it to be bankrupt than save it. They see this as a punishment for a company believed it can ignore government guidance. I agree, nothing in China is pure business, and Hainan province government is trying to save it as well. But due to the shareholding arrangement HNA has, it is unlikely the central government will change its mind of HNA very soon - because it can not be bought back to state/public hands. Not an expert on this, but just some thoughts on the "punishment" comments. 1. HNA, like most of the large Chinese "private" companies, have strong government backing. Hainan Province Government started the airline off but no longer a majority stake holder, and now it's pretty well-known that HNA group is related to one or multiple members of Central Government leadership. (Not trying to name the exact person here though) The above statement is evidenced by HNA's grab of big chunk of slots in PEK right now with all the other state-owned airlines (MU, CZ) constantly complaining about their lack of slots at PEK. And HU will dominate T1 and T2 at PEK after MU and CZ and their fellow alliances move out to Daxing later this year. I won't believe it if someone told me a "private" airline can have this privilege at the top 2 busiest airport in the world and have their endless love from CAAC in terms of slots and routes allocation. (well, behind CA of course 🤣) 2. Being a notorious company doesn't break you, HNA is just like another perfect example: Wanda Group. Both groups went on a crazy shopping spree a few years ago trying to get their hands on the oversea properties to reduce risk of some major mainland economical and financial collapse. Most of people felt like it was just stupid move to expand quickly, but imo it was a smart move to move their assets overseas. But the problem for the government was they set themselves as examples of overseas acquisitions and a lotta other smaller companies started to follow them and try to do the same thing. The problem was obvious in that the foreign exchange reserves were evaporating quickly and the central government started to panic. They need to stop the huge wave of assets transfer. Being the bigger players, HNA and Wanda obviously became the target of the government. They restrict new debts from central banks which caused the series of problem we see now. This is how government want to warn people: they let people see the details of bad examples. But that's all they want to do, they won't punish these large private conglomerates (to bankrupt) because they are just too big of players who have their body tied well into that of the government. |
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Post by ca350 on Jan 30, 2019 18:44:53 GMT 1
Rumour said all the remaining frames for HKA will go to Hainan Airlines. Very interesting. I personally doubt HU will still need that many additional capacities. Their 787 utilization is relatively low. Unless they get rid of some earlier A330s, it's hard to imagine they would absorb all of the remaining HX order plus 15 ordered by HU themselves. |
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kronus
in service - 1 year
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Post by kronus on Mar 2, 2019 14:36:18 GMT 1
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Post by marlibu on Mar 2, 2019 17:45:55 GMT 1
quite a lot of frames in Toulouse will be parked for a long time.
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