philidor
in service - 6 years
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Post by philidor on Nov 7, 2019 12:12:01 GMT 1
As we all understood, Airbus isn't building a new completion center in Tianjin, its's just the A330 completion center that is going to start performing work on A350s as well. So, sending some A350s to Tianjin for completion doesn't mean that no more A330s will be outfitted and completed there (there might be A339 or even A338 sales to China in the future).
This is the same process as in TLS, where A330s and A350s share outfitting stations and paintshops.
I think we should merge both threads into a 'A330 and A350 completion center in Tianjin' thread.
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Post by sciing on Nov 7, 2019 16:14:03 GMT 1
Outfitting A350 in TSN should mean some changes in the FAL flow, but I wonder if Airbus achieved its original target flow? Large part of outfitting should be already done in the FAL station 40 and 30. But to be flight ready they also need to do stuff like cockpit and engines which should not be done before S20. So did Airbus switched back to a classical FAL flow or did they never achieved the target flow planned for the A350. Airbus has indeed achieved the planned A350 rate of production in TLS. Moving some A350 completion work to Tianjin isn't motivated by a lack of capacity, its just a way of placating Chinese authorities in order to unlock sales. As you point out, Airbus will have to slightly change its process for 'Chinese' frames, attaching engines before outfitting the aircraft. It is not just a „slight“ change compared to the presented flow. And especially in the pulsed line part from S50 to S30, I think any change or exception is difficult. So I wonder if Airbus is really doing outfitting already in S40 and S30 and not later in S20?
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Nov 7, 2019 18:03:57 GMT 1
Sciing, the A350 FAL is quite flexible. More specifically, I think an otherwise structurally complete aircraft can easily be rolled out from a station and moved to engine attachment. Anyhow, we'll soon see how it unfolds.
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Post by sciing on Nov 7, 2019 18:27:04 GMT 1
Sciing, the A350 FAL is quite flexible. More specifically, I think an otherwise structurally complete aircraft can easily be rolled out from a station and moved to engine attachment. Anyhow, we'll soon see how it unfolds. That‘s not my point. Airbus made a presentation how the A350 is build. The flow was a big change to previous flows like the A330 and the A380, more work should be done in parallel and the time in FAL should be reduced by 30%. S20 should be not outfitting anymore. So I just wonder if this is really the case? We can guess from the tents and the long time in S20 that outfitting seems to be done later. So Airbus likely did not integrated outfitting into the early assembly process and the TSN story confirms this for me.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Nov 7, 2019 18:41:11 GMT 1
Airbus made a presentation how the A350 is build. The flow was a big change to previous flows like the A330 and the A380, more work should be done in parallel and the time in FAL should be reduced by 30%. S20 should be not outfitting anymore. So I just wonder if this is really the case? We can guess from the tents and the long time in S20 that outfitting seems to be done later. So Airbus likely did not integrated outfitting into the early assembly process and the TSN story confirms this for me. I now understand what you mean. My guess is that outfitting is partly integrated at an early stage (= large cabin monuments are delivered and installed), but outfitting isn't completed before station 20. It's just a guess, though. I think all the reassignments from a customer to another that Airbus had to make suggest not to customise the frames too early, except perhaps for the most reliable airlines.
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Post by FabienA380 on Nov 8, 2019 8:37:41 GMT 1
I think we should merge both threads into a 'A330 and A350 completion center in Tianjin' thread. I changed the title a little for now.
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Post by peter on Nov 8, 2019 9:32:55 GMT 1
I think we should merge both threads into a 'A330 and A350 completion center in Tianjin' thread. I changed the title a little for now. And please keep it this way. I don't think we want a single thread belonging in two sub-boards.
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Post by addasih on Nov 3, 2020 4:37:16 GMT 1
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Post by ff on Feb 24, 2021 10:25:14 GMT 1
"22H" painted on NWD in this picture, so the final registration has to be B-322H. Usually Air China painted the final registration right after first flight, but this time believe it was only painted after it was moved to DC. (no registration visible on 3rd test flight). Not sure why, but just thought about sharing. flic.kr/p/2kEkT1gAll the new Chinese frames are doing (or about to do) test flight without the final reg, e.g. 452, 470, 474. Possibly because the Chinese are delaying all deliveries, so final reg are not confirmed up until the point that delivery schedule has been confirmed. By the way, they are trying to identify which frame is going to TSN for final delivery. Although they've all been painted, could one of these frames be a candidate?
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Post by ca350 on Feb 24, 2021 10:39:13 GMT 1
"22H" painted on NWD in this picture, so the final registration has to be B-322H. Usually Air China painted the final registration right after first flight, but this time believe it was only painted after it was moved to DC. (no registration visible on 3rd test flight). Not sure why, but just thought about sharing. flic.kr/p/2kEkT1gAll the new Chinese frames are doing (or about to do) test flight without the final reg, e.g. 452, 470, 474. Possibly because the Chinese are delaying all deliveries, so final reg are not confirmed up until the point that delivery schedule has been confirmed. By the way, they are trying to identify which frame is going to TSN for final delivery. Although they've all been painted, could one of these frames be a candidate? Yeah CAAC has this weird thing where airlines have to apply for a quota and a registration for each delivery, and this process could result in delays as well. No idea on the first one going to TSN for completion though. The latest words I can find on the timeline is Q1 2021, although I'm not sure if that has been changed or not. The first A330 that was completed in TSN was also painted Europe before being ferried to TSN, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case this time. Also I don't think 465 will be first one though, apparently CA acceptance team is in Toulouse for acceptance of 465 and 2 A320neos, and they won't come to Europe if the delivery will eventually happen in China. www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202010/30/WS5f9b5497a31024ad0ba82024.html
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