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Post by ff on Nov 18, 2019 17:38:21 GMT 1
I think this frame is absolutely delivered to SAA - callsign was SAA4271, so they ordered paint job in XFW after delivery. Mate, I knew that. It's been contractually delivered last month.
We are just checking technical terms for this game only.
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Post by ff on Nov 18, 2019 17:42:31 GMT 1
How about frames delivered through XFW? For example, MSN354 SAA going to XFW today. If it's for paint job, it will fly home from XFW. MSN354 maybe done by year end, but we could see MSN365 and other ntu frames doing the same. If they have been "delivered" e.g. been paid for by the owner (airline or lease co.) and left TLS during 2020 they count. So the terminology in this game is:
- contractually delivered to an airline or a lessor (which we can check against Airbus O&D spreadsheet) - fly away from TLS, regardless to client, to storage, to paint or to an airshow (which we can monitor TLS operation)
Triple check: even if that frame parked for storage elsewhere for a while, then flow back to TLS? E.g. HK Airlines ntu frames could well be doing that.
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Post by stealthmanbob on Nov 18, 2019 18:22:50 GMT 1
If they have been "delivered" e.g. been paid for by the owner (airline or lease co.) and left TLS during 2020 they count. So the terminology in this game is:
- contractually delivered to an airline or a lessor (which we can check against Airbus O&D spreadsheet) - fly away from TLS, regardless to client, to storage, to paint or to an airshow (which we can monitor TLS operation)
Triple check: even if that frame parked for storage elsewhere for a while, then flow back to TLS? E.g. HK Airlines ntu frames could well be doing that.
The last point counts as it was contractually delivered and then left TLS, if it came back for paint / maintenance / on a service I don't care 😀 |
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cja
In Parts Built
Posts: 16 
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Post by cja on Nov 18, 2019 18:41:46 GMT 1
The concept of "flown out of Toulouse" is no longer fit for purpose. There are so many exceptions that the rules have to be made up as you go along! So are frames flown for "storage", to Hamburg, included, etc etc not to mention frames such as three sold 31 December 2018 and stored, then being counted as deliveries in the year they happen to fly from Toulouse for perhaps another customer! Why not simply use the contractual deliveries as reported by Airbus a week or so after year end? Then at least you have reliable numbers.
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Post by stealthmanbob on Nov 18, 2019 19:56:04 GMT 1
The concept of "flown out of Toulouse" is no longer fit for purpose. There are so many exceptions that the rules have to be made up as you go along! So are frames flown for "storage", to Hamburg, included, etc etc not to mention frames such as three sold 31 December 2018 and stored, then being counted as deliveries in the year they happen to fly from Toulouse for perhaps another customer! Why not simply use the contractual deliveries as reported by Airbus a week or so after year end? Then at least you have reliable numbers. Cos it's my game 😉 |
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Nov 19, 2019 0:58:11 GMT 1
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Nov 19, 2019 1:00:54 GMT 1
I think it's easy to clarify the notion of aircraft 'flyaway'. We should decide that the only flyaway that matters is flyaway for airline service, which excludes storage, paint or fitting out.
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Post by ff on Nov 19, 2019 10:11:41 GMT 1
I think it's easy to clarify the notion of aircraft 'flyaway'. We should decide that the only flyaway that matters is flyaway for airline service, which excludes storage, paint or fitting out. That is the difficult part! How do we define "flyaway for airline service"? Quite a few airlines receiving their new frames, either park for a while, or send it away somewhere for interior/paint, etc. before they enter the frame into service. What's the difference on fly to somewhere to get the final fitting out or going to their base for final fitting out? How do we know these technical details?
For example, VS always fly their new frames to LGW base first, normally new frame stay there for 10-15 days before go to LHR. For A350, they actually all went to Glasgow from Gatwick, before return to LHR base where their new home is.
10 days, 15 days or a month stay before EIS, what is the definition for "for airline service"?
I don't think we can ever define everything in this game, I will simply just let stealthmanbob to define the winner each year, as this is his game that we all participating.
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Nov 19, 2019 10:40:22 GMT 1
I think it's easy to clarify the notion of aircraft 'flyaway'. We should decide that the only flyaway that matters is flyaway for airline service, which excludes storage, paint or fitting out. That is the difficult part! How do we define "flyaway for airline service"? Quite a few airlines receiving their new frames, either park for a while, or send it away somewhere for interior/paint, etc. before they enter the frame into service. What's the difference on fly to somewhere to get the final fitting out or going to their base for final fitting out? How do we know these technical details?
For example, VS always fly their new frames to LGW base first, normally new frame stay there for 10-15 days before go to LHR. For A350, they actually all went to Glasgow from Gatwick, before return to LHR base where their new home is.
10 days, 15 days or a month stay before EIS, what is the definition for "for airline service"?
I don't think we can ever define everything in this game, I will simply just let stealthmanbob to define the winner each year, as this is his game that we all participating.
I agree with the last sentence. Having a referee, he who rules. Players have to accept his rulings. |
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Post by stealthmanbob on Jan 17, 2020 12:36:50 GMT 1
I will try to post a couple of times a month a running total.
MSN 351 16/1 and MSN 355 17/1
As of this morning the delivery total = 2
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