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Post by airboche on Oct 7, 2013 9:02:25 GMT 1
Lufthansa cancellation? Not so sure about it. From my point of view the confusion is generated by Lufthansa counting only "legal binding current firm orders" in their company document. This is because the LH board needs to "activate" every pre-arranged order ("option") by special permit to make it legally binding too. AFAIK Lufty's plans have not changed. They still intend to take their full A380 number.
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tomparis1
Final Assembly Line stage 2
Posts: 390
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Post by tomparis1 on Oct 7, 2013 10:33:19 GMT 1
Lufthansa cancellation? Not so sure about it. From my point of view the confusion is generated by Lufthansa counting only "legal binding current firm orders" in their company document. This is because the LH board needs to "activate" every pre-arranged order ("option") by special permit to make it legally binding too. AFAIK Lufty's plans have not changed. They still intend to take their full A380 number. Good point! I've read similar also in other sources. Strange story. I hope that will be soon enlighten.
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Post by a380admirer on Oct 7, 2013 10:36:31 GMT 1
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Post by airboche on Oct 7, 2013 10:48:42 GMT 1
Okay thanks. That does indeed sound like they do not intend to take some options left that had sounded like probable upcoming firm orders before to me.
BTW: They have cancelled all 747-8 options beyound their firm order too.
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howard
in Convoy en route to Toulouse
Posts: 51
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Post by howard on Oct 8, 2013 19:21:53 GMT 1
According to Airbus themselves, these were not options but firm orders. In the August database released on the Airbus website, they held 17 A380s ordered for Lufthansa. The September issue the figure was just 14, with 10 in service.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Oct 8, 2013 22:07:38 GMT 1
According to Airbus themselves, these were not options but firm orders. In the August database released on the Airbus website, they held 17 A380s ordered for Lufthansa. The September issue the figure was just 14, with 10 in service. If I understand correctly the information in this thread, Airbus booked three orders as firm when LH considered that they were conditional. This suggests that the MoU that was signed this year actually was not about new orders. It was only about firming orders already booked by Airbus ! This is weird ! Did Airbus awkwardly try to cook the books, or is this some face-saving, window-dressing move from LH ?
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Post by airboche on Oct 9, 2013 13:00:00 GMT 1
In their 2001 anual report LH stated that they had 15 firm A380 orders plus 5 options. Afterwards they added two more firm orders to finally cut their number by three now. So now they end up having 14 firms, leaving four more to be delivered.
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howard
in Convoy en route to Toulouse
Posts: 51
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Post by howard on Oct 9, 2013 17:53:43 GMT 1
According to Airbus themselves, these were not options but firm orders. In the August database released on the Airbus website, they held 17 A380s ordered for Lufthansa. The September issue the figure was just 14, with 10 in service. If I understand correctly the information in this thread, Airbus booked three orders as firm when LH considered that they were conditional. This suggests that the MoU that was signed this year actually was not about new orders. It was only about firming orders already booked by Airbus ! This is weird ! Did Airbus awkwardly try to cook the books, or is this some face-saving, window-dressing move from LH ? No, that is not how the database works. They do not publish numbers with options. It's only firm orders. Lufthansa initially ordered 15 in 2001, in March 2011 they activated 2 options bringing the full order to 17 firms. With this cancellation they will have ordered 14 firms, with 10 having been already delivered. Their options portfolio is unknown at this point, and may have been zeroed out by this agreement. I should expect that this was all part of the recent A350 order negotiations.
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ghorn
Outfitting in Hamburg
Posts: 993
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Post by ghorn on Oct 10, 2013 13:03:10 GMT 1
There does seem to have been some difference of interpretation between Airbus and Lufthansa. If 5 of the original order were 'not firm' it would explain the story from earlier this year that Lufthansa had sought approval to buy 2 more A380s. 10+2+2 = 14 with no cancellations. Airbus has always shown the total for LH as 17,so it is embarrassing for them to have to reduce the total to 14 now.
Geoff
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Post by peter on Oct 11, 2013 18:42:06 GMT 1
According to Airbus themselves, these were not options but firm orders. In the August database released on the Airbus website, they held 17 A380s ordered for Lufthansa. The September issue the figure was just 14, with 10 in service. Spot on howard!!! Lufthansa cancelled three firm orders. This image clearly shows they intend to receive 4 A380's until 2025. Msn's 146, 149, 175 and 177 already known!
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