ghorn
Outfitting in Hamburg
Posts: 993
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Post by ghorn on Feb 12, 2014 18:03:53 GMT 1
I remain sceptical about this order and will do until they place them with airlines. Amedeo are just another sales channel for Airbus, as things stand. Hope it works well. Geoff Wrong assumption. Amadeo will attract airlines which are out of reach for Airbus. Sorry, don't understand your comment. All airlines are 'in reach' for Airbus. Anyone can order an A380 and if they want arrnge a lease ( with Amedeo or another lessor ). Geoff
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Post by addasih on Feb 12, 2014 18:17:28 GMT 1
Wrong assumption. Amadeo will attract airlines which are out of reach for Airbus. Sorry, don't understand your comment. All airlines are 'in reach' for Airbus. Anyone can order an A380 and if they want arrnge a lease ( with Amedeo or another lessor ). Geoff If an airline wants one frame they almost have to pay Airbus the list price for it. Amedeo ordered 20 and I am pretty sure they got deep discount on the list price. This will allow them to lease it to that airlines which wants one or two frames only with a profit but also with much less than list price. Win-Win situation for Amedeo and the airlines
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Post by Flying Dutchman on Feb 12, 2014 19:08:22 GMT 1
Also an airline can lease it for a specific time period only (Like hajj, intensive holidays etc). By offering it globally Amedeo could cover many regional "high seasons" with different customers? Maybe it is an advantage to lease it if you just need a few from a service point of view as well? And it is the financing; a smaller airline might not be able to get the necessary loans/investor capital to buy a A380. (Or a airline with not so good credit rating.....)
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ghorn
Outfitting in Hamburg
Posts: 993
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Post by ghorn on Feb 12, 2014 19:10:57 GMT 1
Sorry, don't understand your comment. All airlines are 'in reach' for Airbus. Anyone can order an A380 and if they want arrnge a lease ( with Amedeo or another lessor ). Geoff If an airline wants one frame they almost have to pay Airbus the list price for it. Amedeo ordered 20 and I am pretty sure they got deep discount on the list price. This will allow them to lease it to that airlines which wants one or two frames only with a profit but also with much less than list price. Win-Win situation for Amedeo and the airlines Possibly but in my opinion unlikely. We can only guess at the commercial terms but my feeling is that Amedeo does not have the financial standing to take delivery of an unleased A380 nor to pay cancellation charges. I think Airbus will be carrying the risk until an operator is found. Geoff
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s543
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,957
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Post by s543 on Feb 12, 2014 22:18:05 GMT 1
Also an airline can lease it for a specific time period only (Like hajj, intensive holidays etc). By offering it globally Amedeo could cover many regional "high seasons" with different customers? Maybe it is an advantage to lease it if you just need a few from a service point of view as well? And it is the financing; a smaller airline might not be able to get the necessary loans/investor capital to buy a A380. (Or a airline with not so good credit rating.....) I do not believe this to be a case for Amadeo - this is operation for some wet-leasing airline - like HiFly etc. but those are buying planes which other send to the desert - i.e. they might be a customer for the oldest bodies after some years..... Financial leasing company can not provide short term leases.Simply impossible.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Feb 12, 2014 22:24:07 GMT 1
Lessors don't like to take risks. They work with small margins, so that in their business taking major risks is a sure recipy for failure. "Speculation" is possible with extremely common airframes such as A320s, 737s, A330s, but not with an aircraft like the A380 which has about ten customers only, all of them using different configurations.
So, whatever Mr Lapidus likes to say, I don't believe he is running a true speculation. He must already have draft contracts with several operators, and a purchase contract with Airbus allowing him to defer some orders under certain conditions.
There is nothing wrong with that, all lessors try to have it both ways. The reason they exist is that they take the resale risk away from airlines (except in financial leases). That is of particular importance for the A380 (its resale value is unknown) - no need for blind orders.
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ghorn
Outfitting in Hamburg
Posts: 993
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Post by ghorn on Feb 13, 2014 0:24:55 GMT 1
Lessors don't like to take risks. They work with small margins, so that in their business taking major risks is a sure recipy for failure. "Speculation" is possible with extremely common airframes such as A320s, 737s, A330s, but not with an aircraft like the A380 which has about ten customers only, all of them using different configurations. So, whatever Mr Lapidus likes to say, I don't believe he is running a true speculation. He must already have draft contracts with several operators, and a purchase contract with Airbus allowing him to defer some orders under certain conditions. There is nothing wrong with that, all lessors try to have it both ways. The reason they exist is that they take the resale risk away from airlines (except in financial leases). That is of particular importance for the A380 (its resale value is unknown) - no need for blind orders. Yes, good summary, well said. Geoff
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XWB
in service - 11 years
Posts: 16,115
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Post by XWB on Feb 16, 2014 19:12:13 GMT 1
Agreed with philidorDuring an earlier interview with Mr Lapidus, Amedeo would only have to find 3 or 4 customers to place all 20 A380s. I assume they already signed some sort of MoU with at least two customers. No way Amedeo would order 20 (!) A380s without having a customer for it.
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Post by peter on May 13, 2014 14:28:33 GMT 1
Amedeo's website no longer lists msn 017, 023, 025, 083 and 103 under their assets. Have those been sold back to EK of to any other lessor?
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XWB
in service - 11 years
Posts: 16,115
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Post by XWB on May 13, 2014 14:33:28 GMT 1
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