mtrunz
delivered!
Digital Aviation/Meteo Analyst
Posts: 1,956
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Post by mtrunz on Dec 27, 2018 18:25:44 GMT 1
Are we sure about this? Could they have more orders from lessors? There is no lessor or undisclosed order left. Last lessor was ALC (for Frontier). Sichuan was hidden under undisclosed. I have a hard time understanding this whole lessor order thing. I understand that the lessor can order, say 100 Aircraft, and then any airline can coordinate what aircraft they want from the lessor itself and not Airbus? Who has the main financial burden from this? Is it similar like renting a place where you pay the landlord the rent and the landlord takes care of everything else? And how do you know which Airline it goes to compared to the lessor order book? Sorry for all these questions. Maybe it needs to have its own thread? To me this is just huge grey area in aviation that I haven't had the time to wrap my head around ha!
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Dec 28, 2018 11:26:34 GMT 1
I have a hard time understanding this whole lessor order thing. I understand that the lessor can order, say 100 Aircraft, and then any airline can coordinate what aircraft they want from the lessor itself and not Airbus? Who has the main financial burden from this? Is it similar like renting a place where you pay the landlord the rent and the landlord takes care of everything else? And how do you know which Airline it goes to compared to the lessor order book? Sorry for all these questions. Maybe it needs to have its own thread? To me this is just huge grey area in aviation that I haven't had the time to wrap my head around ha! On principle, it's quite simple. Lessors make bulk orders, enjoying large discounts, and then offer the aircraft to airlines. As lessors often order at an early stage, the deal may include some attractive slots. Taking an aircraft through a lessor may increase the cost for an airline, but there are good reasons why so many airlines lease at least some of their aircraft (the following applies to operational leases, not financial leases, which are another kettle of fish). The first reason to lease instead of purchasing is that an airline may find it more easy to lease an aircraft than to borrow money to buy it, or may find the lease cost lower than the financial cost from a loan. The reason why this is true is that the lessor keeps property of the aircraft and can reclaim it more easily in case of default or bankruptcy. Another financial 'advantage' for an airline is that its balance sheet may look better when leasing because it carries less financial debt, though nowadays no bank or financial analyst would be fooled by the difference. The second reason to lease may be to enjoy early delivery slots retained by the lessor. Of course, to get some of the best slots, the airline is likely to have to take a few others as part of a comprehensive deal. The third reason is that an airline leasing a fleet is tied to the aircraft type or to the fleet size only for the duration of the lease. It's much more easy to return an aircraft to a lessor at the end of the lease than to sell it ! Many airlines use a combination of direct orders and leases as an efficient way of adjusting their fleet size to demand. Others use leases to roll over their aircraft and keep a young fleet, saving on maintenance. The fourth reason is that the lessor, not the airline, carries the risk of a decline in resale value. Of course, the reverse is true, but transferring a risk is still an advantage. A possible fifth reason often mentioned by lessors is that small airlines are at a disadvantage when negotiating with manufacturers, especially when applying for an amendment to a sales contract. Lessors claim they pay more attention to small customers and often show more flexibility. From the manufacturers' point of view, lessors may sometimes appear as competitors (for instance, too many early A339 orders from lessors now are a drag on new A339 sales), but they do offer financial solutions to airlines, and bear a financial risk (think of these two A350s delivered to a lessor in 2016 that have left TLS only a few weeks ago, or of the string of bankruptcies that we have seen this year). Another important reason for manufacturers to deal with lessors is that they often cooperate to offer an attractive mix to win a large order for an aircraft in high demand. To make it short and simple, lessors are facilitators. They are, however interested only in aircraft with a large market (mainly narrowbodies, but also leading widebodies like A330, 787 ...) and no specific features, making it easy to find a substitute lessee in case of default. That's why A380s are leased only through special purpose lessors using tax-booster financial schemes.
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Post by FabienA380 on Dec 28, 2018 14:40:08 GMT 1
Thanks philidor for the detailed explanations
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mtrunz
delivered!
Digital Aviation/Meteo Analyst
Posts: 1,956
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Post by mtrunz on Dec 28, 2018 18:42:15 GMT 1
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Post by ca350 on Dec 29, 2018 0:33:28 GMT 1
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someone
in service - 1 year
Posts: 3,334
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Post by someone on Dec 31, 2018 9:17:16 GMT 1
Scheduled to leave Hamburg today
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Post by ca350 on Dec 31, 2018 12:11:51 GMT 1
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Post by addasih on Dec 31, 2018 17:15:29 GMT 1
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Post by ca350 on Jan 3, 2019 9:20:18 GMT 1
Two more Lufthansa deliveiry flights today. Though contractual deliveries likely happened last month. Airbus A320 -214 8667 D-AIWC Lufthansa delivery 03jan19 XFW-SXF (+ 8672 D-AIWD ex D-AUAU) ex D-AUAS www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=1
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Jan 3, 2019 9:43:40 GMT 1
Two more Lufthansa deliveiry flights today. Though contractual deliveries likely happened last month. Airbus A320 -214 8667 D-AIWC Lufthansa delivery 03jan19 XFW-SXF (+ 8672 D-AIWD ex D-AUAU) ex D-AUAS www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb.main?LC=nav4&page=1We can expect most of the delivery flights this week to be contractually delivered last year.
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