mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Mar 13, 2019 15:29:18 GMT 1
We talk her about an airline or let us say a leasing company has a delivery date. If all payments are made on the agreed upon dates and the aircraft is taken on the date agreed upon. If now the airline does not fly it themselves, but moves it over to another airline for example, I do not see where it would be an industry wide rule, that that will never be aloud to happen. Customers aren't free to sell their aircraft or purchase rights at their own will. These rights are non-transferable, an exception being made for long-term leasing. That rule, which extends beyond delivery, is central in all aircraft purchase agreements. In return for discounts on list price, customers cannot freely sell their frames in the next few years after delivery (often five years) , unless it is to lease it back for the same duration. This professional practice may be the main reason why list prices exist, and why lessors are part of the aviation business, while wholesalers aren't ! Of course, a customer may always get a waiver from the manufacturer. If purchase rights would be non transferable we would not see the problems when an airline gets bust. We see purchase rights transferred to other companies and or a long time frame until those cases are resolved. We also have seen frames directly after delivery get a new livery and end up at a different airline. I do not think contract law is that simple, that one can declare that one can never purchase slots. |
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Mar 14, 2019 14:37:57 GMT 1
If purchase rights would be non transferable we would not see the problems when an airline gets bust. We see purchase rights transferred to other companies and or a long time frame until those cases are resolved. We also have seen frames directly after delivery get a new livery and end up at a different airline. I do not think contract law is that simple, that one can declare that one can never purchase slots. 1 - An airline going bankrupt is a typical case of termination of an aircraft purchase contract. After the termination, while all assets owned by the airline are dealt with in the bankruptcy process, the manufacturer can dispose of all the aircraft or aircraft parts still in its possession, which indeed may involve livery changes (another case is when the customer is a lessor which reassigns its aircraft to another lessee). 2 - Delivery positions cannot be traded without the manufacturer's agreement. That doesn't mean that no trade is ever possible. I made it clear in my previous post that a deal is possible with a waiver from the manufacturer (it may be in its interest as well). ' EDIT : strictly speaking, 'purchase rights' are a different type of agreement. They are rights to purchase a certain type of aircraft at a said price, but without a precise delivery date (which makes them different from options). 'Purchase rights' are usually included in a purchase contract when a customer wants to secure the contract price for additional units in case it needs to grow its fleet at some unknown later stage. |
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mtrunz
delivered!
Digital Aviation/Meteo Analyst
Posts: 1,956 
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Post by mtrunz on Mar 14, 2019 14:49:39 GMT 1
Thanks for taking the time to battle it out. I think I understand what you guys are saying 😅
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Post by kevin5345179 on Mar 16, 2019 4:53:28 GMT 1
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Post by marlibu on Mar 17, 2019 2:44:14 GMT 1
let the speculation begin...let us see what direction they take with this new major order. I am a mixture of intrigue and curiosity.
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Post by kevin5345179 on Mar 17, 2019 7:57:02 GMT 1
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Post by FabienA380 on Mar 17, 2019 8:09:56 GMT 1
"surplus stored A350s"?..
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kronus
in service - 1 year
Posts: 3,401
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Post by kronus on Mar 17, 2019 10:07:56 GMT 1
Maybe SAA wants two Airbus ex-prototypes msn 2 and msn 4?
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Post by peter on Mar 17, 2019 10:57:24 GMT 1
"surplus stored A350s"?.. Msn's 246, 251, 260. I've got this feeling hell will freeze over before HX takes them. |
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Post by kevin5345179 on Mar 18, 2019 7:11:07 GMT 1
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