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Post by ca350 on Dec 4, 2019 3:04:40 GMT 1
United Airlines A321neo ACF (P&W engines) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 11500 A321-271NX D-AXXH N44501 [delivered 16-10-2023] (#1) MSN 11598 A321-271NX D-AZAA N14502 [delivered 29-11-2023] (#2) MSN 11599 A321-271NX D-AXXB N14503 [delivered 05-01-2024] (#4) MSN 11661 A321-271NX D-AYAL N24505 [delivered 29-12-2023] (#3) MSN 11680 A321-271NX D-AZAY N14506 [delivered 14-03-2024] (#7) MSN 11706 A321-271NX F-WWAV N24508 [delivered 16-11-2024] (#21) MSN 11708 A321-271NX D-AZXF N14504 [delivered 01-02-2024] (#5) MSN 11775 A321-271NX D-AVXX N14511 [delivered 09-04-2024] (#8) MSN 11814 A321-271NX F-WWSE N24510 [delivered 20-11-2024] (#23) MSN 11846 A321-271NX D-AVXU N14507 [delivered 01-03-2024] (#6)
MSN 11850 A321-271NX D-AZWZ N24513 [delivered 21-05-2024] (#9) MSN 11894 A321-271NX D-AVZP N14518 [delivered 02-08-2024] (#15) MSN 11901 A321-271NX F-WZMD N14509 [delivered 30-05-2024] (#10) MSN 11953 A321-271NX F-WZMI N24514 [delivered 07-06-2024] (#11) MSN 11965 A321-271NX D-AZAG N24519 [delivered 15-11-2024] (#19) MSN 11966 A321-271NX F-WWSG N14523 [delivered 19-11-2024] (#22) MSN 12002 A321-271NX F-WZMN N24514 [delivered 23-07-2024] (#13) MSN 12049 A321-271NX F-WZMS N14515 [delivered 25-07-2024] (#14) MSN 12061 A321-271NX F-WWSL N14524
MSN 12068 A321-271NX D-AZXP N24516 [delivered 22-06-2024] (#12) MSN 12101 A321-271NX F-WZMX N14517 [delivered 05-11-2024] (#17) MSN 12103 A321-271NX F-WZMZ N14520 [delivered 07-11-2024] (#18) MSN 12131 A321-271NX D-AZWR N24526 [delivered 15-11-2024] (#20) MSN 12175 A321-271NX F-WZMD N14521 [delivered 04-11-2024] (#16) MSN 12204 A321-271NX F-WZMF N44522 FFMSN 12208 A321-271NX F-WZMK N54525 FF
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Post by ca350 on Dec 4, 2019 3:07:07 GMT 1
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Baroque
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,991
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Post by Baroque on Dec 4, 2019 13:17:46 GMT 1
Another US Major jumps on the XLR boat. When United orders the XLR, I think the NMA is officially dead. 737 replacement coming next.
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kronus
in service - 1 year
Posts: 3,400
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Post by kronus on Dec 4, 2019 17:33:01 GMT 1
Delivery schedule of UA a321XLR according to ATDB: 2024 10x 2025 15x 2026 15x 2027 10x
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Dec 16, 2019 17:47:10 GMT 1
When United orders the XLR, I think the NMA is officially dead. 737 replacement coming next. I would not link so closely the future of the NMA and UA's decision to buy the XLR. UA is buying that sub-type to replace many of its 757s, not its 767s. The NMA, on the other hand, would be a widebody, which in spite of Boeing's marketing speeches would not have much chance of being used on a wide scale to replace narrowbodies. Though admittedly the prospects of a NMA launch look bleak, that had been the case for a while. UA's decision per se doesn't change the NMA programme prospects, in my opinion.
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s543
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,959
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Post by s543 on Dec 17, 2019 18:16:00 GMT 1
Though admittedly the prospects of a NMA launch look bleak, that had been the case for a while. UA's decision per se doesn't change the NMA programme prospects, in my opinion. I am sure it does. NMA wanted to replace both the 757 and the 767 - the replacement of 757s is now a moot point so only 767s are left and how many ? !
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Dec 17, 2019 19:14:34 GMT 1
I am sure it does. NMA wanted to replace both the 757 and the 767 - the replacement of 757s is now a moot point so only 767s are left and how many ? ! Being a widebody, the NMA never stood a chance to replace 757s, or any other narrowbody for that matter (except possibly on some special routes). Only Boeing's marketing was trying to make us believe in that outcome. A narrowbody replacing widebodies on some routes would be more credible. That's why I don't think UA's order is changing the situation.
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Baroque
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,991
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Post by Baroque on Dec 17, 2019 20:33:45 GMT 1
I am sure it does. NMA wanted to replace both the 757 and the 767 - the replacement of 757s is now a moot point so only 767s are left and how many ? ! Being a widebody, the NMA never stood a chance to replace 757s, or any other narrowbody for that matter (except possibly on some special routes). Only Boeing's marketing was trying to make us believe in that outcome. A narrowbody replacing widebodies on some routes would be more credible. That's why I don't think UA's order is changing the situation. Airlines seemed to buy into it. For the NMA, they wanted a "widebody with narrowbody economics" and a pricing well below a WB, closer to NB. I think at this point the NMA is dead. Whatever business case they had of it would have most definitely depended on Airbus not taking over the replacements of 757s, especially at Boeing-preferred airlines such as United and American. If these two jumped ship to the XLR, NMA is not happening. I will say it, next project for Boeing, 737 replacement. They have a lot to catch up already and can't get distracted with trying to work out marginal business cases. The MAX fiasco closed that window.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Dec 18, 2019 16:03:25 GMT 1
Airlines seemed to buy into it. For the NMA, they wanted a "widebody with narrowbody economics" and a pricing well below a WB, closer to NB. Of course, airlines bought into it ! They said they would buy the NMA if it was cheap enough, preferably hardly more expensive than a narrowbody ... Likewise, I would be ready to buy a Porsche at the price of a regular car, and I would even accept to pay 15 % more ! The global trend, however, is an increase in narrowbody use, a decrease in widebody use. The NMA might have slowed that trend, but it would not have reversed it. Boeing's plan was never to replace 757s by NMAs : there are few of them left, and even fewer on transatlantic or equivalent routes, while anyhow the NMA would not be competitive against the A321neo on these routes . That was only the marketing speech ! The plan was to create (or, rather, re-create) a small widebody market by introducing a modern product into a market space deprived of modern offerings. You can call it a 767, A300 or A310 successor if you like, but even 767 replacement wasn't a central target (again, there are few of them left). Boeing's bet was that a lack of modern competitive offerings in that market segment was suppressing a potential demand that would thrive as soon as a modern product would be available. The NMA would also complement the 787-800 to kill the A330, and make it difficult for Airbus to launch a successor. The main problems with that plan was probably not market size, but pricing. The NMA had to be much cheaper than the 787, which required very low production costs. Such costs appear to have been out of reach so far. On the other hand, low prices would have created a risk of cannibalising the 787 market ... For the reasons outlayed above, I have always held - and still hold - a skeptical view of the NMA. I don't think, however, that UA's 757 replacement choice matters much, since there was no way the NMA could have been an acceptable candidate.
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Post by FabienA380 on Apr 5, 2023 5:36:00 GMT 1
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