philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Nov 28, 2015 9:46:04 GMT 1
Fanairbus, I don't understand your numbers. Each engine must achieve its own certification, which both A320neo engines have done. Airbus tests not each engine type but the integration of each engine type with the airframe, and there are additional tests which are independant of the engine and can be performed on any test or production airframe. I don't think we can make any computation of our own. We can just point to those tests which are not compulsory for certification but necessary in practice, that may not have been performed yet. We know some usual tests (such as water ingestion test, extreme cold tests) were not mentioned in Airbus' releases or videos, but the issue is not a number of flight hours.
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starbucks
Roll Out Flight Line in Toulouse
Posts: 528 
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Post by starbucks on Nov 28, 2015 10:21:31 GMT 1
Fanairbus, I don't understand your numbers. Each engine must achieve its own certification, which both A320neo engines have done. Airbus tests not each engine type but the integration of each engine type with the airframe, and there are additional tests which are independant of the engine and can be performed on any test or production airframe. I don't think we can make any computation of our own. We can just point to those tests which are not compulsory for certification but necessary in practice, that may not have been performed yet. We know some usual tests (such as water ingestion test, extreme cold tests) were not mentioned in Airbus' releases or videos, but the issue is not a number of flight hours. True, however we do have Airbus saying at F-WNEO's first flight that the road to TC for the A320neo would take approximately 1600 hours to be evenly distributed between the two engine variants (800 - 800). Of course this is just an estimate and the P&W far exceeded that estimate as Airbus mentioned the P&W TC was completed at more than 1070 hours. But the CFM frames might be well on track to achieve TC within 800hrs or even less. Besides that, Airbus indeed mentioned that some trials could be changed to the other engine variant, they mentioned it during the grounding of the P&W frames from May -> July. |
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starbucks
Roll Out Flight Line in Toulouse
Posts: 528
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Post by starbucks on Nov 28, 2015 11:49:24 GMT 1
On the excellent A320neo Flight Test Logbook site (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0_SiRc0ejKcOeWz3jTWfSQAyb3_YrFatp1bz9xmRB8/pubhtml)the total 'planned' hours for the A320neo model's testing is 1600 h but only about 420 h of this has been testing the CFM engines to date. If this engine version also needs roughly the same number of hours fro certification (why wouldn't it) then the total for the A320neo development will be a minimum of another 600 h. With the P&W A320 test flights continuing, are there any informed members who might be able to fill in the final target hours for the A320neo development (or gambling members tempted momentarily away from the A380 convoy guessing game)? Sorry, had to go after my previous post.... Coming back on this, I decided to keep the 1600hrs in the sheet as it was the last official statement from Airbus (14 months ago) as I said above to be divided evenly. I don't have any official sources, but I expect the CFM frame to stay closer to it's target of 800, D-AVVB still has to do the noise tests and then Route Proving can start I guess, F-WNEW might go to KEF for a short trip. About the P&W frames continuing to fly might have something to do with this: At 00:45 Klaus Roewe says that the TC marks the end of the development phase Looking at this picture from the Flight Test thread:  It is followed the the Maturity phase, I think the earlier estimate of 800hrs might only be the development phase, in the maturity phase Airbus keeps flying the plane on a day to day basis to show the (future) customers the plane is just as reliable as the current generation A320's Each flight consists of 3 take-offs and landings and a turn-around in TLS of about 1 hour. Looking a lot like airline operations. |
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Post by fanairbus on Nov 28, 2015 17:10:24 GMT 1
I hadn't realized that it was you Starbucks that makes the Test Logbook. As I said it's excellent, thanks.
I don't know that much about these things and as my name suggests I am just a fan, not an expert; that's why I appreciate the comments of others far more knowledgeable than me.
From the correspondence though it would seem reasonable to expect the CFM fleet of two to fly about another 400 h i.e. a total A320 programme of 2,000 h.
Keep up the great work.
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henge
Final Assembly Line stage 2
Posts: 346
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Post by henge on Nov 30, 2015 4:08:38 GMT 1
In the above Airbus tweet from 24.11.2015 they say that fuel burn for the A320neo is 20% better than for A320ceo. As far as i remember that was the target for 2020. Is this (for now) just a nice marketing number or do we see here an indication that fuel burn for the neo is considerable better than expected  ? In the press release on the double type certification, also dated 24.11.2015, they state the following: So I guess, in the tweet accuracy fell victim to brevity (as with Twitter so often is the case...) |
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mape
In Parts Built
Posts: 18
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Post by mape on Dec 4, 2015 19:19:30 GMT 1
Do we know when will Airbus end up production of 320CEO and remain production with only NEO planes?
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Dec 4, 2015 23:31:47 GMT 1
Do we know when will Airbus end up production of 320CEO and remain production with only NEO planes? This remains unclear, especially for MRTTs. Airbus has still not announced any plan to produce an A330neo MRTT, but most observers think they will. |
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Post by pa380scal on Dec 5, 2015 0:05:51 GMT 1
Do we know when will Airbus end up production of 320CEO and remain production with only NEO planes? This remains unclear, especially for MRTTs. Airbus has still not announced any plan to produce an A330neo MRTT, but most observers think they will. Maybe you need to move your post to the correct Thread  This is the A320neo thread, not the A330neo Thread. |
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Linie 9
in service - 1 year
Posts: 2,761
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Post by Linie 9 on Dec 5, 2015 1:04:01 GMT 1
Don't know if this is the right thread:
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Post by stealthmanbob on Dec 5, 2015 1:09:20 GMT 1
This remains unclear, especially for MRTTs. Airbus has still not announced any plan to produce an A330neo MRTT, but most observers think they will. Maybe you need to move your post to the correct Thread This is the A320neo thread, not the A330neo Thread. Or the A330 MRTT thread either  |
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This is the A320neo thread, not the A330neo Thread.
