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Post by addasih on Feb 4, 2020 23:33:26 GMT 1
Oh well, at least you tried addasih  😂 and failed miserably |
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Post by kevin5345179 on Feb 4, 2020 23:51:51 GMT 1
Can you read the discussion and my response again? I should rephrase as it is not possible for program accounting to include actual sales prices since you always have your accounting block larger than your actual total order. I didn't say the cost is not predicted avg cost. What I'm trying to point out is under 1600 or whatever number of accounting block, cost from frame 1 to frame 1600 is predicted based on the learning curve you estimated. That learning curve estimation itself can be inaccurate. If that learning curve is inaccurate, how do you accurate predict your avg cost. [ You ask how to book price? The price is paid by the costumer on delivery and so this price goes as revenue in the books. The average cost booked is predicted by Boeing and as the cost fall you simply just have to enlarge the accounting block if your prediction was wrong. The real average cost over the 1st 1200 frames is higher than over the 1st 1600. Boeings prediction was wrong for the 1st 1200. As they could not change the predicted average cost the increased the block size. thanks idk what I was thinking a bit ago ..... Based on you can kept enlarging your accounting block and it is not being caped at the number of sales you received. I think my assumption is valid that you can "engineer" to get revenue from day 1 if you really want it. All you do is enlarge accounting block later on ...... |
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Feb 5, 2020 1:23:14 GMT 1
Based on you can kept enlarging your accounting block and it is not being caped at the number of sales you received. I think my assumption is valid that you can "engineer" to get revenue from day 1 if you really want it. All you do is enlarge accounting block later on ...... Getting revenue from day one is easy, all sales produce revenue. I suppose you mean getting earnings from day one. Yet, I pointed out to you that early sales are made at a very low price, because of launch prices and because early-built frames often have problems (Boeing's 'terrible teens'). I also pointed out to you that manipulating cost predictions would backfire through reactions from financial markets and their regulator. Yet, you keep repeating the same ... Your contend that the manufacturer can count on increasing the size of the accounting block later, but the number must be realistic and supported by actual sales. Indeed, 787 sales kept flowing in, but that was impossible to know in advance. A moderate commercial success would have forced Boeing to take a large and immediate loss. What you achieve through programme accounting is mitigating fluctuations in company earnings over several years, against long-standing accounting principles. This has a price : more taxes are paid earlier, and large (probably excessive) bonuses are paid out. |
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Post by kevin5345179 on Feb 5, 2020 2:48:15 GMT 1
Based on you can kept enlarging your accounting block and it is not being caped at the number of sales you received. I think my assumption is valid that you can "engineer" to get revenue from day 1 if you really want it. All you do is enlarge accounting block later on ...... Getting revenue from day one is easy, all sales produce revenue. I suppose you mean getting earnings from day one. Yet, I pointed out to you that early sales are made at a very low price, because of launch prices and because early-built frames often have problems (Boeing's 'terrible teens'). I also pointed out to you that manipulating cost predictions would backfire through reactions from financial markets and their regulator. Yet, you keep repeating the same ... Your contend that the manufacturer can count on increasing the size of the accounting block later, but the number must be realistic and supported by actual sales. Indeed, 787 sales kept flowing in, but that was impossible to know in advance. A moderate commercial success would have forced Boeing to take a large and immediate loss. What you achieve through programme accounting is mitigating fluctuations in company earnings over several years, against long-standing accounting principles. This has a price : more taxes are paid earlier, and large (probably excessive) bonuses are paid out. 1. Who set the rule price for each frame launch customer is getting must be higher than the avg cost 2. Why terrible teens matter if you are using actual sales price - avg cost for your accounting 3. Remind me the bad consequences for wrong cost estimation. Worse comes worse is you have to put those numbers on your balance sheet that's long over due. |
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Feb 6, 2020 0:47:09 GMT 1
1. Who set the rule price for each frame launch customer is getting must be higher than the avg cost 2. Why terrible teens matter if you are using actual sales price - avg cost for your accounting 3. Remind me the bad consequences for wrong cost estimation. Worse comes worse is you have to put those numbers on your balance sheet that's long over due. 1. Sorry, I don't understand that sentence. There is no such rule, early aircraft are often sold at a loss. 2. What matters is that the price is so low - even compared to average costs - that the aircraft are sold at a loss. 3. I see that you aren't familiar with financial markets - unreliable forecasts often drive negative advice on the stock. I am through with that discussion. Sorry, Addasih, for contributing to keep it going, perhaps you were right. |
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Post by kevin5345179 on Feb 12, 2020 8:03:49 GMT 1
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someone
in service - 1 year
Posts: 3,334
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Post by someone on Feb 25, 2020 10:21:02 GMT 1
ANA's latest order, should take the 787 orders above 1500 units, and the -10 above 200
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Post by kevin5345179 on Apr 23, 2020 18:02:55 GMT 1
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Post by kevin5345179 on Apr 24, 2020 8:32:06 GMT 1
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someone
in service - 1 year
Posts: 3,334
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Post by someone on Apr 29, 2020 13:50:59 GMT 1
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