philidor
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Post by philidor on Jun 27, 2017 8:35:22 GMT 1
NO, Fabien, not at all ! As you know, the 757 is a narrowbody ; speculation is over, in Boeing's lineup, the 757 successor is the 737-10, even though it has less range. Here, we are talking about a widebody family, 767 successors designed to try to kill off the A330, and also replace the 787-8. Nothing to do with the 757.I already pointed out the relevant thread : a380.boards.net/thread/1865/boeings-proposed-small-widebody-familyYou can dub it MOM (as Boeing used to do until recently), NMA (as they do know) or even 797 (as will happen if it is launched). It does not matter, but we need to have only one thread about Boeing's new small widebodies. |
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mjoelnir
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Post by mjoelnir on Jun 27, 2017 13:39:49 GMT 1
NO, Fabien, not at all ! As you know, the 757 is a narrowbody ; speculation is over, in Boeing's lineup, the 757 successor is the 737-10, even though it has less range. Here, we are talking about a widebody family, 767 successors designed to try to kill off the A330, and also replace the 787-8. Nothing to do with the 757.I already pointed out the relevant thread : a380.boards.net/thread/1865/boeings-proposed-small-widebody-familyYou can dub it MOM (as Boeing used to do until recently), NMA (as they do know) or even 797 (as will happen if it is launched). It does not matter, but we need to have only one thread about Boeing's new small widebodies. It should exactly also take the place of the 757. The 757-200 and 757-300 are sized above the 737-10. The 757-300 and 767-200 are nearly a match in size, but not in range. The killing off the A330 was the supposed work of the 787 and the MoM. NMA or 797 will not reach that size. I would call the current speculation rather a small twin aisle than a wide body, the fuselage will be in size nearer to a narrow body considerable less diameter than a 767. 7 across on narrow seats and only LD3-45 in the belly is hardly a wide body. And in the size discussed, it hardly replaces the 787-8 either. Otherwise it does not matter if we have one thread or two threads. I would still not open a new thread every time the name is changed on that project. |
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philidor
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Post by philidor on Jun 28, 2017 7:43:41 GMT 1
It should exactly also take the place of the 757. Except in some particular cases, airlines are not going to replace a narrowbody with a widebody. The market is moving in the opposite direction. That's why Boeing is launching the 737-10 to contain the A321neo. The killing off the A330 was the supposed work of the 787 and the MoM. NMA or 797 will not reach that size. The 787 was supposed to replace both the 767 and the A330. The programme did not reach these targets because the smaller family member, the 787-8, is more heavy than Boeing initially hoped. Boeing has given up on this variant, which will not be in production any more when its present backlog has been cleared up, which is going to happen pretty soon. [This is not speculation : Boeing has been extremely clear that most of the reduction in 787 production cost comes from moving from 787-8 production to 787-9 or -10 production] To-day, the replacement of existing 767 fleets is a quandary for operators : the A330 is too large, and Boeing can only offer the 787-9, which is even less of a suitable 767 replacement. The NMA targets this market space. You rightly point out that it should be much smaller than the A330, but operators may be tempted to downgauge, and the new combination NMA/789 could be a real threat to the A330. I would call the current speculation rather a small twin aisle than a wide body, the fuselage will be in size nearer to a narrow body considerable less diameter than a 767. 7 across on narrow seats and only LD3-45 in the belly is hardly a wide body. And in the size discussed, it hardly replaces the 787-8 either. A small twin aisle or a widebody ... The difference is only in freight, which does not matter so much in the present market. If you think the NMA is not a 767 and 787-8 successor, you are missing Boeing's obvious targets. |
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mjoelnir
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Post by mjoelnir on Jun 28, 2017 14:22:16 GMT 1
It should exactly also take the place of the 757. Except in some particular cases, airlines are not going to replace a narrowbody with a widebody. The market is moving in the opposite direction. That's why Boeing is launching the 737-10 to contain the A321neo. The killing off the A330 was the supposed work of the 787 and the MoM. NMA or 797 will not reach that size. The 787 was supposed to replace both the 767 and the A330. The programme did not reach these targets because the smaller family member, the 787-8, is more heavy than Boeing initially hoped. Boeing has given up on this variant, which will not be in production any more when its present backlog has been cleared up, which is going to happen pretty soon. [This is not speculation : Boeing has been extremely clear that most of the reduction in 787 production cost comes from moving from 787-8 production to 787-9 or -10 production] To-day, the replacement of existing 767 fleets is a quandary for operators : the A330 is too large, and Boeing can only offer the 787-9, which is even less of a suitable 767 replacement. The NMA targets this market space. You rightly point out that it should be much smaller than the A330, but operators may be tempted to downgauge, and the new combination NMA/789 could be a real threat to the A330. I would call the current speculation rather a small twin aisle than a wide body, the fuselage will be in size nearer to a narrow body considerable less diameter than a 767. 7 across on narrow seats and only LD3-45 in the belly is hardly a wide body. And in the size discussed, it hardly replaces the 787-8 either. A small twin aisle or a widebody ... The difference is only in freight, which does not matter so much in the present market. If you think the NMA is not a 767 and 787-8 successor, you are missing Boeing's obvious targets. I can agree and did agree with the 767 successor, but hardly replaces the 787-8. Perhaps the space the 787-3 was supposed to occupy. If Boeing needs a new 787-8, they have to do a 787-8 enhanced, back porting stuff from the 787-9/10 and do same weight optimisation, but we would not see that before all ordered current 787-8 are delivered. |
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kronus
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Post by kronus on Jun 29, 2017 17:45:13 GMT 1
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philidor
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Post by philidor on Jul 3, 2017 14:19:56 GMT 1
Norwegian interested in 797: They had to be ! They are a Boeing-equipped airline operating long distance low-cost flights. They wanted something cheaper than their 787 fleet ; they order for A321neo must have raised an alarm at Boeing. The 797 seems to be tailor-made for them. |
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Post by FabienA380 on Jul 4, 2017 9:47:23 GMT 1
Norwegian interested in 797: they order for A321neo must have raised an alarm at Boeing. Ouuch, I wasn't aware of Norwegian ordering the A321neo??....... Wikipedia even mentions they ordered 30 A321neoLR?........ I just have gone through the Airbus Orders 2017 thread but nothing is mentioned, neither in the Norwegian A320neos thread........ |
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Post by Jkkw on Jul 4, 2017 10:17:48 GMT 1
they order for A321neo must have raised an alarm at Boeing. Ouuch, I wasn't aware of Norwegian ordering the A321neo??....... Wikipedia even mentions they ordered 30 A321neoLR?........ I just have gone through the Airbus Orders 2017 thread but nothing is mentioned, neither in the Norwegian A320neos thread........ Should be a 2016 order |
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someone
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Post by someone on Jul 4, 2017 11:10:01 GMT 1
Ouuch, I wasn't aware of Norwegian ordering the A321neo??....... Wikipedia even mentions they ordered 30 A321neoLR?........ I just have gone through the Airbus Orders 2017 thread but nothing is mentioned, neither in the Norwegian A320neos thread........ Should be a 2016 order Yes, in 2016 they changed 30 of their 100 A320neo order into A321neoLR |
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
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Post by mjoelnir on Jul 4, 2017 11:29:29 GMT 1
Norwegian Air Shuttle has 67 A320neo and 30 A321neo on order, order date 8 June 2012.
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