mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
|
Post by mjoelnir on Mar 22, 2019 15:17:09 GMT 1
Only Boeing seems to have four own generic MAX simulators for customer flight training and Air Canada one. The others are said to be NG sims. Ethiopian and Icelandair have 737MAX simulators. The question is just, does Boeing influence got in the way of those simulators being real 737MAX simulators, offering to train on a 737MAX with all warts and failure scenarios? Up to now it seems that Boeing got mainly in the way of serious training for the 737MAX. Training is a cost factor and Boeing did not want the 737MAX to be associated with need for training over and above what is needed for the 737NG. |
|
mtrunz
delivered!
Digital Aviation/Meteo Analyst
Posts: 1,956 
|
Post by mtrunz on Mar 22, 2019 15:51:06 GMT 1
Only Boeing seems to have four own generic MAX simulators for customer flight training and Air Canada one. The others are said to be NG sims. Ethiopian and Icelandair have 737MAX simulators. The question is just, does Boeing influence got in the way of those simulators being real 737MAX simulators, offering to train on a 737MAX with all warts and failure scenarios? Up to now it seems that Boeing got mainly in the way of serious training for the 737MAX. Training is a cost factor and Boeing did not want the 737MAX to be associated with need for training over and above what is needed for the 737NG. Its either a "real 737max" simulator, or not. Just slapping a MAX sticker on a NG simulator doesn't make it a MAX simulator. Doesn't really matter what Boeing says. As we all are learning they are two different aircrafts and like you said, its about being able to simulate all aspects of the 737max. So if that is not available for airlines, then its not a 737max simulator. The industry needs to be that specific, otherwise we will have a lot of problems in the future. |
|
|
|
Post by fanairbus on Mar 23, 2019 0:20:26 GMT 1
|
|
philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
|
Post by philidor on Mar 23, 2019 9:34:39 GMT 1
Only Boeing seems to have four own generic MAX simulators for customer flight training and Air Canada one. The others are said to be NG sims. I understood that these Boeing simulators are no different from all others as they don't offer any MCAS training. I remember reading - when AF 447 was topical - that stall / approach to stall can be difficult to simulate because applicable laws are ill-defined. This was given as a reason why training for stall prevention at high altitude had to be done in real flight. MCAS being a stall prevention software, if the above is correct, then it may explain why no simulated MCAS training is still being offered, though differences in altitude may offer a different picture in the MAX cases. This may be part of the MAX conundrum. EDIT : A tweet from 'ThePointsGuy', posted by Addasih in the 'B737 MAX worldwide grounding' thread, implies that MCAS simulation is possible. a380.boards.net/thread/2595/b737max-worldwide-grounding-march-2019?page=12 |
|
|
|
Post by airboche on Mar 23, 2019 15:01:11 GMT 1
New software could be just new possible "AoA disagree" displays or "MCAS active" or similar not necessarily stall and post stall flight behavior simulated.
Newer simulators focus more on individual teaching content separated into chapters not so much on emulating some virtual airplane in every respect.
|
|
|
|
Post by fanairbus on Mar 25, 2019 9:50:21 GMT 1
Boeing engages pilots, technicians and regulators on 737 Max
25 March, 2019 SOURCE: Flight Dashboard BY: Firdaus Hashim Singapore
'Boeing has started holding information sessions with pilots, technical leaders and regulators on the Boeing 737 Max as it works towards having the global grounding of the fleet lifted. The manufacturer confirms that it held a session on 23 March, and is planning a similar one on 27 March at Renton.
“This is part of our ongoing effort to share more details about our plan for supporting the safe return of the 737 Max to commercial service,” it says in a statement.'
IS this the right way for Boeing to act at present i.e. the publicity about what they are doing. It may have been better (and more subtle) to continue such activities internally without the noise such that some may interpret further pressure/control be placed on the FAA. Could it be US society / business and the way it works that is the answer irrespective of the effectiveness of subtleties?
|
|
mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
|
Post by mjoelnir on Mar 25, 2019 13:05:27 GMT 1
Only Boeing seems to have four own generic MAX simulators for customer flight training and Air Canada one. The others are said to be NG sims. I understood that these Boeing simulators are no different from all others as they don't offer any MCAS training. I remember reading - when AF 447 was topical - that stall / approach to stall can be difficult to simulate because applicable laws are ill-defined. This was given as a reason why training for stall prevention at high altitude had to be done in real flight. MCAS being a stall prevention software, if the above is correct, then it may explain why no simulated MCAS training is still being offered, though differences in altitude may offer a different picture in the MAX cases. This may be part of the MAX conundrum. EDIT : A tweet from 'ThePointsGuy', posted by Addasih in the 'B737 MAX worldwide grounding' thread, implies that MCAS simulation is possible. a380.boards.net/thread/2595/b737max-worldwide-grounding-march-2019?page=12 I understand the opposite. The four 737MAX simulators owned by Boeing CAN simulate MCAS and it seems CAN simulate the AoA failure. www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/business/boeing-737-pilots-simulators.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=HomepageOnly in 737MAX simulators delivered to customers (Boeing not being the manufacturer), is it not possible to train for MCAS or the AoA failure. |
|
mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
|
Post by mjoelnir on Mar 25, 2019 13:11:08 GMT 1
For me Boeing sabotaged the possibility of airlines offering their pilots a real difference training between 737NG and 737MAX. All in the name of showing that the move from NG to MAX would not cost money or time in regards to pilot training.
|
|
philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
|
Post by philidor on Mar 25, 2019 16:24:53 GMT 1
I understand the opposite. The four 737MAX simulators owned by Boeing CAN simulate MCAS and it seems CAN simulate the AoA failure. Well, I actually said the same thing as you when I edited my post (see 'EDIT' above) |
|
philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
|
Post by philidor on Mar 25, 2019 16:30:43 GMT 1
For me Boeing sabotaged the possibility of airlines offering their pilots a real difference training between 737NG and 737MAX. All in the name of showing that the move from NG to MAX would not cost money or time in regards to pilot training. This is a major subject matter. the FAA now has to show some muscle : 737 NG pilots must receive a true MAX difference training. The pilots must experience simulated MCAS activation to recognise it if it happens in flight. |
|
