A320 Family Production Issues

sciing
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 10, 2019 6:21:31 GMT 1 addasih, philidor, and 1 more like this

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Post by sciing on Jul 10, 2019 6:21:31 GMT 1

www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-deliveries/airbus-deliveries-climb-in-h1-sources-say-leaving-production-challenge-idUSKCN1U00R1

Quite big news hidden:

Airbus has reshuffled some key industrial management posts with the head of its A400M military airlifter, former space systems executive Michael Menking, brought in to run the dominant A320 program, according to a LinkedIn posting.

Previous A320 program head Klaus Roewe has been named head of customer services.

The A320 program is still in trouble, the production in TLS, TSN and BFM is going well but XFW seems to be still messy not supporting the ramp up targets.
Just 21 deliveries in June and 130 in the 1st half 2019.

Last Edit: Jul 29, 2019 7:52:15 GMT 1 by FabienA380: title

mjoelnir
in service - 2 years

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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 10, 2019 9:18:24 GMT 1

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Post by mjoelnir on Jul 10, 2019 9:18:24 GMT 1

Jul 10, 2019 6:21:31 GMT 1 sciing said:

www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-deliveries/airbus-deliveries-climb-in-h1-sources-say-leaving-production-challenge-idUSKCN1U00R1

Quite big news hidden:

Airbus has reshuffled some key industrial management posts with the head of its A400M military airlifter, former space systems executive Michael Menking, brought in to run the dominant A320 program, according to a LinkedIn posting.

Previous A320 program head Klaus Roewe has been named head of customer services.

The A320 program is still in trouble, the production in TLS, TSN and BFM is going well but XFW seems to be still messy not supporting the ramp up targets.
Just 21 deliveries in June and 130 in the 1st half 2019.

XFW is the place where ship sets for TSN and BFM are compiled. There is also pre FAL work done for all four FAL facilities.
I assume that trouble is kept at "home" in XFW.
Anyway, how is the engine supply, especially high thrust versions for the A321neo, doing?

Last Edit: Jul 10, 2019 11:01:37 GMT 1 by mjoelnir

philidor
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 11, 2019 18:22:47 GMT 1 FabienA380 likes this

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Post by philidor on Jul 11, 2019 18:22:47 GMT 1

Jul 10, 2019 6:21:31 GMT 1 sciing said:

The A320 program is still in trouble, the production in TLS, TSN and BFM is going well but XFW seems to be still messy not supporting the ramp up targets.
Just 21 deliveries in June and 130 in the 1st half 2019.

Production levels are more dependent on the supply chain than on FAL performance. XFW problems are in part due to the still difficult production of ACF fuselages, not to the FAL per se.

mjoelnir
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 11, 2019 19:38:04 GMT 1 philidor likes this

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Post by mjoelnir on Jul 11, 2019 19:38:04 GMT 1

Jul 11, 2019 18:22:47 GMT 1 philidor said:

Jul 10, 2019 6:21:31 GMT 1 sciing said:

The A320 program is still in trouble, the production in TLS, TSN and BFM is going well but XFW seems to be still messy not supporting the ramp up targets.
Just 21 deliveries in June and 130 in the 1st half 2019.

Production levels are more dependent on the supply chain than on FAL performance. XFW problems are in part due to the still difficult production of ACF fuselages, not to the FAL per se.

If we look at the FAL, XFW is of course a big part of the supply line, especially in regards to the fuselage.

Yet my feeling is, that scarcity of engines, especially high thrust versions used on the A321neo, is still the main culprit for delays. There are also only few A321neo with Leap engines getting delivered. There are both ACF and non ACF frames delayed.

Perhaps this discussion should be moved somewhere else.

Last Edit: Jul 11, 2019 19:46:57 GMT 1 by mjoelnir

sciing
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 11, 2019 22:03:32 GMT 1 via mobile stealthmanbob likes this

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Post by sciing on Jul 11, 2019 22:03:32 GMT 1

No, I think it is the right place.
Sending frames to DRS for rework or store them for long time (and likely rework) in XFW with engines is quite hard to explain by engine issues.
Your high trust engine argument might be good for 10 frames, but XFW lacks much more. They are still in 88xx/89xx and TLS now reached 91xx. And the 88xx and 89xx are all types.
There are some unallocated MSN around 9000 and 9100, so I already think XFW removed some to close the gap or prevent it to increase.

Last Edit: Jul 11, 2019 22:06:35 GMT 1 by sciing

mjoelnir
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 12, 2019 0:14:26 GMT 1 FabienA380, addasih, and 2 more like this

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Post by mjoelnir on Jul 12, 2019 0:14:26 GMT 1

Jul 11, 2019 22:03:32 GMT 1 sciing said:

No, I think it is the right place.
Sending frames to DRS for rework or store them for long time (and likely rework) in XFW with engines is quite hard to explain by engine issues.
Your high trust engine argument might be good for 10 frames, but XFW lacks much more. They are still in 88xx/89xx and TLS now reached 91xx. And the 88xx and 89xx are all types.
There are some unallocated MSN around 9000 and 9100, so I already think XFW removed some to close the gap or prevent it to increase.

There are frames undelivered all the way down to MSN8140.

If we look at undelivered frames below 8900, 37 all together.

We find all kinds of frames.

A321, 22: 15 ACF, 9 LEAP + 6 P&W, 5 non ACF, 1 LEAP + 4 P&W, 1 A321ceo

A320, 16: 14 A320neo, 4 LEAP + 10 P&W. 1 A320ceo

A319, 1: 1 A319neo LEAP

Frames below 8700

In the above there are 4 frames for LATAM all A320neo P&W MSN8140 8172 8531 8635,
1 frame for Astana an A321 P&W MSN 8277,
1 frame for GoAir an A320 P&W MSN 8445,
2 frames intended for Primera, both ACF LEAP MSN 8547 8602,
and 1 Frame for Arctic tern, the A319neo LEAP MSN 8612.
All this frames, 9, are below 8700 and I assume mostly different problems not connected to production problems, account for why they are still there in XFW.

Frames between 8700 and 8800.

MSN8753 an A321neo P&W for Vietnam Airlines not flown yet
MSN8757 an A320neo P&W for GoAir, FF 01.07.2019
MSN8773 an A321neo ACF LEAP for TAP not flown yet
MSN8774 an A320neo ACJ LEAP private owner
MSN8776 an A321neo P&W for Sichuan Airlines
MSN8785 an A320neo P&W for GoAir, not flown yet

I assume the 6 frames above can have all other explanations than XFW production problems.

Frames between 8800 and 8900

MSN8800 an A321neo ACF LEAP for American Airlines
MSN8814 an A321neo ACF P&W for Lufthansa
MSN8822 an A321ceo for Delta
MSN8829 an A321neo LEAP for Alaska Airlines
MSN8834 an A321neo ACF LEAP for AA
MSN8836 an A320neo P&W for Sichuan Airlines
MSN8837 an A321neo ACF P&W for Astana
MSN8839 an A321neo ACF P&W for Air New Zealand FF 02.07.2019
MSN8844 an A320neo P&W for Volaris not flown yet
MSN8849 an A321neo P&W for Sichuan Airlines
MSN8851 an A320neo LEAP for China Southern not flown yet
MSN8861 an A321neo ACF LEAP for Air Arabia not flown yet
MSN8863 an A320neo LEAP for Pegasus FF 04.07.2019
MSN8864 an A320neo P&W for Indigo not flown yet
MSN8873 an A320neo P&W for Sichuan
MSN8882 an A321neo ACF P&W for Wizz not flown yet
MSN8887 an A321neo ACF LEAP for Air Lingus, not flown yet, picture with engines 24.06.2019
MSN8889 an A320neo LEAP for Avianca FF 18.06.2019
MSN8892 an A320ceo for Peach, not flown yet, I have not seen a picture with engines.
MSN8893 an A321neo ACF P&W for JetBlue, not flown yet
MSN8897 an A321neo ACF LEAP for Air Arabia, not flown yet
MSN8898 an A321neo ACF LEAP for AA not flown yet.

It would be interesting now sciing, if you could point to me to the frames above, where you are sure that production problems other than engine delays is the proper reason for late delivery. Excluding the frames where the buyer is responsible for late delivery.

best regards Mjoelnir

sciing
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 12, 2019 6:24:39 GMT 1 via mobile

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Post by sciing on Jul 12, 2019 6:24:39 GMT 1

Maybe you could explain me why you think these frames have not „production problems“ or what else the problem is?
You make a great list, but I wonder how you got the conclusion?
I am just repeating me, there is clearly an issue not related to engines and your list prove this, doesn‘t it?
How should I disagree to your data if it proves my point?

mjoelnir
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 12, 2019 9:14:52 GMT 1

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Post by mjoelnir on Jul 12, 2019 9:14:52 GMT 1

Jul 12, 2019 6:24:39 GMT 1 sciing said:

Maybe you could explain me why you think these frames have not „production problems“ or what else the problem is?
You make a great list, but I wonder how you got the conclusion?
I am just repeating me, there is clearly an issue not related to engines and your list prove this, doesn‘t it?
How should I disagree to your data if it proves my point?

What a cop out the moment you are asked to get detailed. You could perhaps provide one MSN number and the reason other than engine or deferral by the potential owner?

mjoelnir
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A320 Family Production Issues Jul 12, 2019 10:47:37 GMT 1 FabienA380 and tomparis1 like this

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Post by mjoelnir on Jul 12, 2019 10:47:37 GMT 1

My point to the A320neo family delays is very simple.

We know that there have been production delays at both P&W and CFM International. Both are still catching up.
In regards to the GTF from P&W we know that defect engines had to be rebuild and that put a strain both on availability of parts and availability of resources to rebuild. It is also still going on or otherwise newly finished.
We know that Airbus was not refitting the frames in line with with the row of MSN numbers, but preferring to deliver new frames and the older frames got new or rebuild engines when some extra were available.

There are also some buyers not taking frames at the agreed on time.

There are of course other supply line issues at Airbus, but I have not heard of any affecting frames post FAL.

So until somebody shows my evidence to the contrary, I assume non availability of engines.

I also assume that all FAL outside of XFW get preferential treatment and problems are kept at XFW, as it should be.

Anyway, we are looking at record deliveries of A320 family frames in the first half of the year, if we combine the numbers of neo and ceo deliveries.

edit: We also watched in the last 6 days 6 frames out of the below MSN8900 pool being delivered, reducing that number to now 35.

Last Edit: Jul 12, 2019 14:26:48 GMT 1 by mjoelnir

philidor in service - 6 years Posts: 8,950	A320 Family Production Issues Jul 20, 2019 17:01:25 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by philidor on Jul 20, 2019 17:01:25 GMT 1 The above discussion is entirely about A320 family production (mainly A320neo family). It should be moved to the relevant thread, in my opinion.
	Last Edit: Jul 20, 2019 17:02:49 GMT 1 by philidor

A320 Family Production Issues

Post by sciing on Jul 10, 2019 6:21:31 GMT 1

Post by mjoelnir on Jul 10, 2019 9:18:24 GMT 1

Post by philidor on Jul 11, 2019 18:22:47 GMT 1

Post by mjoelnir on Jul 11, 2019 19:38:04 GMT 1

Post by sciing on Jul 11, 2019 22:03:32 GMT 1

Post by mjoelnir on Jul 12, 2019 0:14:26 GMT 1

Post by sciing on Jul 12, 2019 6:24:39 GMT 1

Post by mjoelnir on Jul 12, 2019 9:14:52 GMT 1

Post by mjoelnir on Jul 12, 2019 10:47:37 GMT 1

Post by philidor on Jul 20, 2019 17:01:25 GMT 1