XWB
in service - 11 years
Posts: 16,115
|
Post by XWB on Jan 12, 2016 19:05:05 GMT 1
Looking at the Airbus orderbook for 2015 (just updated for December) overall orders are now 319 compared to 317 previously. 317 - 1 + 3 gives 319.
|
|
|
Post by stealthmanbob on Jan 12, 2016 19:09:36 GMT 1
Because the customer asked to remain undisclosed. ANA will announce their next fleet strategy on January 29. My guess is that ANA wants to announce the order first instead of Airbus. Also wait for the shock when ANA order 8+
|
|
|
Post by FabienA380 on Jan 13, 2016 1:10:27 GMT 1
I still find it weird/interesting/doubtful that 2 orders of 3 frames were made, almost in the same time, after more than a year of no orders.
There have never been any order of 3 frames, especially for a new A380-customer, and we would all agree that 3 frames isn't a right number to operate.
If still there is 2 orders of 3, could there be eventually for the same airline?... Air Accord might be related to the world global airline, so both merged could be an order of 6 for ANA?.......
|
|
|
Post by Jkkw on Jan 13, 2016 5:42:18 GMT 1
In Airbus's O&D spreadsheet it says Air Accord is based in Latin America.
I don't necessarily see it strange the ANA and Transaero/Air Accord order/alterations happened at the same time, I see it more as a coincidence. The ANA order has probably been in the works for a while, especially after Airbus approved ANA's takeover of Skymark. Transaero ceased operations in October and I think 2 months is a reasonable time for the airline's orders to be cancelled/altered (the airline's order for 8 A320neos were also cancelled in December).
I do however find it interesting that part of the order was transferred to a lessor rather than all cancelled. The cynical part of me is speculating that perhaps Airbus wanted to have a positive number of net A380s for the year so only cancelled one aircraft and transferred the rest of the order to an unknown lessor only to be cancelled later this year (when hopefully Airbus has new orders to offset the loss). Alternately I'm wondering if there are high cancellation fees or deposits already paid which may prompt the creditors/administrators of Transaero to decide not cancelling the entire order. I do see Fabien's theory of these 3 aircraft from Air Accord being leased to ANA as possible but my gut feelings says it's unlikely.
|
|
sciing
in service - 1 year
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,502
|
Post by sciing on Jan 13, 2016 13:59:12 GMT 1
|
|
s543
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,957
|
Post by s543 on Jan 13, 2016 15:10:09 GMT 1
Interesting - but do we believe this "Bermuda special purpose entity" will be able to place those three planes in real life ? .... uh-huh ....
|
|
|
Post by airboche on Jan 13, 2016 15:27:15 GMT 1
Russia-South America? Could it be related somehow to Mr. Efromovich the owner of Avianca? Maybe they want bigger stuff?
|
|
henge
Final Assembly Line stage 2
Posts: 346
|
Post by henge on Jan 14, 2016 2:42:10 GMT 1
Interesting - but do we believe this "Bermuda special purpose entity" will be able to place those three planes in real life ? .... uh-huh .... Hardly. As I understand it now, this "Air Accord" was simply a phantom "company" existing only on paper, created (by Transaero?) solely for the purpose to avoid paying taxes on the A380 purchase. Now with the demise of Transaero, this phantom will not suddenly become a real leasing firm. If the complete order of 4 pieces would have been booked under "Air Accord" now, I would think that Airbus just wanted to keep them in the order book to be able to finish the year with a positive order total. However, the reduction to 3 pieces is suspicious. I think, there is some plan for the birds that will be revealed at a later time. If we're lucky, these 3 will be transferred to ANA as well to make up a fleet of 6, which sounds more reasonable than just 3. Until Jan. 29, however, everything is just speculation. In just a little over 2 weeks, we'll know more. Or, as s543 always likes to say: We will see!
|
|
philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
|
Post by philidor on Jan 14, 2016 17:27:13 GMT 1
Hardly. As I understand it now, this "Air Accord" was simply a phantom "company" existing only on paper, created (by Transaero?) solely for the purpose to avoid paying taxes on the A380 purchase. You are perhaps being unduly suspicious. Most leased A380s, and many other aircraft, are financed through some scheme in which the lessor is a special purpose vehicle (i.e. a company created especially for the deal). The main reason usually is that the company arranging the deal does not want to be a long-term investor and therefore intends to sell out all the shares to investors. This is what DORIC has been doing to finance EK's fleet. This type of lessor is indeed different from a professional lessor, which likes to own aircraft for the long-term (and speculates on their long term value). Classical lessors find the A380 too risky (narrow market + what is their post-lease value ?), that's why A380s are financed through special speculative schemes. 'Air Accord' might be a new player. I suppose they can find South American investors (some of them might not be to everybody's taste), but we must not count on them to find operators, as has been shown by AMEDEO. If however Airbus has a deal in the making, why not finance it through them ? Now, of course, the question is : is ANA taking 3, or 3 (owned) +3 (leased) frames ...
|
|
XWB
in service - 11 years
Posts: 16,115
|
Post by XWB on Jan 14, 2016 17:31:12 GMT 1
Registering companies at Bermuda happens all the time, Boeing did something similar for some 748 deliveries.
|
|