ghorn
Outfitting in Hamburg
Posts: 993
|
Post by ghorn on Jan 12, 2023 13:59:31 GMT 1
I think you have some errors in the spreadsheet in regards to the A330-200 whole deliveries. You have in the upper table 653 delivered. You show 18 MRTT delivered. 653 - 18 = 645 I count 50 active MRTT including at least 3 used passenger frames that makes 47 delivered as MRTT. 653 -47 = 606 Then you show a number of A330-200 minus MRTT of 585 And below that in the top 5, 593 Even if I counted the delivered MRTT wrong, there is still something spooky with yor numbers in the spreadsheet. Thanks for looking at my figures and for your comments. In general I use the figures provided by Airbus and Boeing but the MRTT is a problem for me as Airbus do not report it separately. Up to and including 2018 I reported the MRTT as a passenger widebody, which I concluded was wrong even though it carries ‘passengers’. The A330-200 production is now solely for MRTT and from 2019 I have removed the MRTT from my annual passenger totals. This is where the 18 deliveries comes from, the total MRTT deliveries for 2019-2022. I have not recalculated passenger totals prior to 2019 as I don’t have the data, the time or the motivation!! The Airbus A330-200 figures are 664 total sales ( 653 delivered and 11 unfulfilled ). Within the Airbus Worldwide spreadsheet the first row is for Military, Government etc. I use this as a ‘proxy’ for MRTT sales. This shows 71 total sales ( 68 delivered and 3 unfulfilled ). I take these figures away from the A330-200 total to give me a Passenger A330-200 figure. Thus I show 593 total passenger sales ( 585 delivered and 8 unfulfilled ). Hope this helps !! Geoff [/quote] I went to planespotters and counted the active MRTT, that gave me 50. In the Military, Government, Private numbers are non MRTT frames included, either for government passenger frames as well as ACJ. 3 frames of the 50 MRTT are converted passenger frames for the RAAF. Those I deducted. That gave me 47 frames sold new as MRTT.[/quote] I agree 47 is probably closer to the actual number of delivered MRTTs than 68. I will consider how to show this in my spreadsheet ! Thanks again. Geoff |
|
|
|
Post by stealthmanbob on Jan 12, 2023 15:11:21 GMT 1
FYI mjoelnir The RAF A330 MRTT that is used by the U.K. Gov is still an MRTT configured aircraft, it just has some better seats up the front end and the special Union Jack colour scheme, it was tanking over the North Sea only yesterday I think. And ghorn all the RAF MRTTs are fitted out with a pax cabin all the time.
Also 4 out of 14 of the "RAFs" Air Tankers MRTTS have been "un-converted" (eg refueling pods and defensive aids have been removed, but are easy to put back on) and are leased out to pax airlines.
G-VYGJ 1439, G-VYGK 1498, G-VYGL 1555 and G-VYGM 1601
|
|
ghorn
Outfitting in Hamburg
Posts: 993
|
Post by ghorn on Jan 12, 2023 16:47:48 GMT 1
FYI mjoelnir The RAF A330 MRTT that is used by the U.K. Gov is still an MRTT configured aircraft, it just has some better seats up the front end and the special Union Jack colour scheme, it was tanking over the North Sea only yesterday I think. And ghorn all the RAF MRTTs are fitted out with a pax cabin all the time. Also 4 out of 14 of the "RAFs" Air Tankers MRTTS have been "un-converted" (eg refueling pods and defensive aids have been removed, but are easy to put back on) and are leased out to pax airlines. G-VYGJ 1439, G-VYGK 1498, G-VYGL 1555 and G-VYGM 1601
Excellent, a perfect example of my dilemma ! I won’t lose any sleep over it though . Geoff |
|
|
|
Post by stealthmanbob on Jan 12, 2023 17:00:16 GMT 1
ghorn - I personally would include all MRTTS in your figuers as they are all built as a passenger aircraft and not as freighters ?
|
|
|
|
Post by ca350 on Jan 12, 2023 17:14:53 GMT 1
ghorn - I personally would include all MRTTS in your figuers as they are all built as a passenger aircraft and not as freighters ? If the tankers are added to the number, the KC-46s should be added as well. Only about ~70 of them in service  |
|
|
|
Post by stealthmanbob on Jan 12, 2023 17:28:29 GMT 1
ghorn - I personally would include all MRTTS in your figuers as they are all built as a passenger aircraft and not as freighters ? If the tankers are added to the number, the KC-46s should be added as well. Only about ~70 of them in service No they should not, KC 46 are built as freighters that's why they don't belong ! MRTTS are passenger aircraft that can also tank, its in the name Multi Role Tanker Transport ! PS it's up to ghorn to record what they want to ! |
|
|
|
Post by ca350 on Jan 12, 2023 17:31:52 GMT 1
If the tankers are added to the number, the KC-46s should be added as well. Only about ~70 of them in service No they should not, KC 46 are built as freighters that's why they don't belong ! MRTTS are passenger aircraft that can also tank, its in the name Multi Role Tanker Transport ! It's a joke if you include the MRTTs but not the counterpart offering that supports USAF, JASDF and soon the Israel Air Force. But again it's the spreadsheet author's decision. It already kinda renders the list not being really useful if it excludes all military version and freighter versions of widebodies, they are the ones that keep some lines moving. btw, by excluding the freighters and military stuff you are ignoring the entire productions of 777/767 line in the past two years until the 777X comes online. |
|
|
|
Post by stealthmanbob on Jan 12, 2023 18:27:56 GMT 1
No they should not, KC 46 are built as freighters that's why they don't belong ! MRTTS are passenger aircraft that can also tank, its in the name Multi Role Tanker Transport ! It's a joke if you include the MRTTs but not the counterpart offering that supports USAF, JASDF and soon the Israel Air Force. But again it's the spreadsheet author's decision. It already kinda renders the list not being really useful if it excludes all military version and freighter versions of widebodies, they are the ones that keep some lines moving. btw, by excluding the freighters and military stuff you are ignoring the entire productions of 777/767 line in the past two years until the 777X comes online. Freighters have always been excluded from ghorn s numbers ! It's about passenger widebody aircraft it says it in the title of his spreadsheet ! Anyway enough 😉 |
|
mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
|
Post by mjoelnir on Jan 12, 2023 19:04:53 GMT 1
FYI mjoelnir The RAF A330 MRTT that is used by the U.K. Gov is still an MRTT configured aircraft, it just has some better seats up the front end and the special Union Jack colour scheme, it was tanking over the North Sea only yesterday I think. And ghorn all the RAF MRTTs are fitted out with a pax cabin all the time. Also 4 out of 14 of the "RAFs" Air Tankers MRTTS have been "un-converted" (eg refueling pods and defensive aids have been removed, but are easy to put back on) and are leased out to pax airlines. G-VYGJ 1439, G-VYGK 1498, G-VYGL 1555 and G-VYGM 1601
I counted all the RAF MRTT as MRTT. I just talked about that some of the RAF MRTT are used as passenger frames and yes easily converted back to tankers. The MRTT or multi roll tanker transporter are actual usable as tanker, or transport, or passenger frame, or even all at the same time. |
|
|
|
Post by stealthmanbob on Jan 12, 2023 19:24:47 GMT 1
FYI mjoelnir The RAF A330 MRTT that is used by the U.K. Gov is still an MRTT configured aircraft, it just has some better seats up the front end and the special Union Jack colour scheme, it was tanking over the North Sea only yesterday I think. And ghorn all the RAF MRTTs are fitted out with a pax cabin all the time. Also 4 out of 14 of the "RAFs" Air Tankers MRTTS have been "un-converted" (eg refueling pods and defensive aids have been removed, but are easy to put back on) and are leased out to pax airlines. G-VYGJ 1439, G-VYGK 1498, G-VYGL 1555 and G-VYGM 1601
I counted all the RAF MRTT as MRTT. I just talked about that some of the RAF MRTT are used as passenger frames and yes easily converted back to tankers. The MRTT or multi roll tanker transporter are actual usable as tanker, or transport, or passenger frame, or even all at the same time. Agreed 👍 The only thing they are not is a main deck freighter. |
|
