Baroque
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,991
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Post by Baroque on Oct 7, 2018 22:37:09 GMT 1
It is weird to see Mexicana orders in there even though they have not been flying for 8 years.
I can see the possibility of Airbus negotiating with the holders of some of the uncertain orders to try and convert them neos so that they can formally terminate the ceo run.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Oct 7, 2018 23:48:51 GMT 1
It is weird to see Mexicana orders in there even though they have not been flying for 8 years. Airbus must keep orders from defunct airlines in the list until all bankruptcy proceedings heve been completed. That can be very long (remember Kingfisher !). Even more caution is needed when Airbus intends to keep deposits or progress payments ... I can see the possibility of Airbus negotiating with the holders of some of the uncertain orders to try and convert them neos so that they can formally terminate the ceo run. They would all say 'OK, give me -neos for the price of -ceos' ! As Airbus must notify the suppliers in time, per their contract, I don't believe in an early termination. |
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Post by sciing on Oct 8, 2018 7:25:10 GMT 1
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mtrunz
delivered!
Digital Aviation/Meteo Analyst
Posts: 1,956
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Post by mtrunz on Oct 8, 2018 15:31:48 GMT 1
FYI, these long URL's have really been bugging me so starting right now after a search the site will generate shorter url's that are much more shareable  |
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Baroque
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,991
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Post by Baroque on Oct 8, 2018 15:37:17 GMT 1
Airbus must keep orders from defunct airlines in the list until all bankruptcy proceedings heve been completed. That can be very long (remember Kingfisher !). Even more caution is needed when Airbus intends to keep deposits or progress payments ... ... They would all say 'OK, give me -neos for the price of -ceos' ! As Airbus must notify the suppliers in time, per their contract, I don't believe in an early termination. Kingfisher went bust a couple of years after Mexicana, and Airbus cleaned up their orders from the books a few years ago I think. And we are talking about just 4 units for Mexicana. On the topic of conversions, there are some uncertain orders in there that I don't think can be carried into the future indefinitely and Airbus, their suppliers and the holders of those orders may be better off at arriving at some sort of a win-win agreement in converting those to neos. Looking at Iranair orders for instance, they can convert those to neos for delivery when the political climate becomes conducive to do so. |
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philidor
in service - 6 years
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Post by philidor on Oct 8, 2018 23:55:16 GMT 1
The Iran Air order is of course a special case requiring a negociation.
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Post by sciing on Oct 9, 2018 6:05:59 GMT 1
I started to go through the production list of Mario, here are the results for the A321 The open orders by end of September A321 2 AIR LEASE CORPORATION They are for Frontier, last MSN will be 8640. The 2 are already in the list, last on 8606. Just 9 in the list, last one 8765. I guess Delta could not take more than 3 per month, so this order will last very long. We all know the status All in the list, last one is 8641. Strange that this single order is left, nothing in the production list Utair restructured years ago and will be going to MAXs in the future. Unlikely that they will take that one, but what will happen with this order? All 5 in the list, last one 8676. 5 are in the list, last one 8791, but delivery seeems to be on hold since some months as there are no signs of MSN 8271. All in the list 5x Sichuan (last one 8664), 1x Capital (8534) |
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cck
Final Assembly Line stage 1
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Post by cck on Oct 9, 2018 6:49:02 GMT 1
For Delta, A321ceo orders were make before they decide their future narrowbodies. Given that Delta had recently go for A321neo, there will be no compatibility concern if they are offered to convert ceo to neo.
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Post by sciing on Oct 9, 2018 7:40:02 GMT 1
For Delta, A321ceo orders were make before they decide their future narrowbodies. Given that Delta had recently go for A321neo, there will be no compatibility concern if they are offered to convert ceo to neo. Delta order 45 ceos last year, even 5 with the 100 Neos, taking them at full steam. Why do you think any part of this orders will or have to be converted? |
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philidor
in service - 6 years
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Post by philidor on Oct 9, 2018 10:21:57 GMT 1
Delta order 45 ceos last year, even 5 with the 100 Neos, taking them at full steam. Why do you think any part of this orders will or have to be converted? The only issue is that, depending on scheduled delivery dates, Airbus may wish to complete the migration to the -neo before full execution of the order. As earlier delivery dates may not be available (or as DL may not accept them), the manufacturer may be forced to postpone the end of -ceo production, or to build the last few frames in advance, unless of course the order is converted to the -neo. I would not be surprised if the DL -ceo order was a sort of buffer designed to cushion Airbus against protracted -neo production problems, while DL would be happy to take -neo instead. There could be, for instance, a conversion clause in the sales purchase agreement, that could be activated by Airbus in case of termination of -ceo production. Of course, if that was the case, DL would enjoy favourable pricing, perhaps even -neo at -ceo price. There is no evidence of the above, but I think there is a reason Airbus has been taking so many late -ceo orders. |
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