mtrunz
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Digital Aviation/Meteo Analyst
Posts: 1,956
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Post by mtrunz on Oct 9, 2018 11:18:10 GMT 1
I didn't know that UTAir was restructuring. I thought they disappeared completely. I guess they just ditched their A321's?
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Oct 9, 2018 13:43:01 GMT 1
Delta order 45 ceos last year, even 5 with the 100 Neos, taking them at full steam. Why do you think any part of this orders will or have to be converted? The only issue is that, depending on scheduled delivery dates, Airbus may wish to complete the migration to the -neo before full execution of the order. As earlier delivery dates may not be available (or as DL may not accept them), the manufacturer may be forced to postpone the end of -ceo production, or to build the last few frames in advance, unless of course the order is converted to the -neo. I would not be surprised if the DL -ceo order was a sort of buffer designed to cushion Airbus against protracted -neo production problems, while DL would be happy to take -neo instead. There could be, for instance, a conversion clause in the sales purchase agreement, that could be activated by Airbus in case of termination of -ceo production. Of course, if that was the case, DL would enjoy favourable pricing, perhaps even -neo at -ceo price. There is no evidence of the above, but I think there is a reason Airbus has been taking so many late -ceo orders. There is no migration to the neo. The different FAL do not need any adjustment to assemble neo instead of ceo. The only concern should and could be the economics of still producing and selling ceos. If the neo engine situation stays tight, it could be an advantage for Airbus to add to the ceo orders and keep producing some ceos in between, even if they can earn more money with a neo.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Oct 9, 2018 16:26:11 GMT 1
There is no migration to the neo. The different FAL do not need any adjustment to assemble neo instead of ceo. The only concern should and could be the economics of still producing and selling ceos. If the neo engine situation stays tight, it could be an advantage for Airbus to add to the ceo orders and keep producing some ceos in between, even if they can earn more money with a neo. Unfortunately, that is impossible, there must be a final -ceo production date, which -ceo vendors are entitled to be given early notice of. Airbus cannot keep them waiting without clear production prospects, when their contracts include minimum and maximum production levels.
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Oct 9, 2018 16:42:10 GMT 1
There is no migration to the neo. The different FAL do not need any adjustment to assemble neo instead of ceo. The only concern should and could be the economics of still producing and selling ceos. If the neo engine situation stays tight, it could be an advantage for Airbus to add to the ceo orders and keep producing some ceos in between, even if they can earn more money with a neo. Unfortunately, that is impossible, there must be a final -ceo production date, which -ceo vendors are entitled to be given early notice of. Airbus cannot keep them waiting without clear production prospects, when their contracts include minimum and maximum production levels. That still does not bring a migration. What has the time frame to do with clear production prospects? Airbus will simply inform the suppliers what parts are when needed. The ceo is to a big part build from the same parts as the neo, many changes were done in the years leading up to the neo, so that today it is in reality mainly the pylons and the engines themselves that make up the difference.
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Post by sciing on Oct 9, 2018 17:22:05 GMT 1
I guess you mixed up the 2 kind of orders. One which are in full delivery progress and the other ones on hold. There is no reason why an order like from Delta should be converted. Supply planning is exactly the argument why there will be no change. But there will be likely some day an EOL announcement.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Oct 9, 2018 18:54:13 GMT 1
That still does not bring a migration. What has the time frame to do with clear production prospects? Airbus will simply inform the suppliers what parts are when needed. The ceo is to a big part build from the same parts as the neo, many changes were done in the years leading up to the neo, so that today it is in reality mainly the pylons and the engines themselves that make up the difference. No, some suppliers are different, the contracts are different, and they include minimums. Airbus cannot drag -ceo production on without incurring huge costs. This isn't going to happen.
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Posts: 2,503
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Post by sciing on Dec 7, 2018 20:24:32 GMT 1
Posted destroyed by myself:-( November update
A319, 14 left 2 HAMBURG INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES 12 UNDISCLOSED
A320, 85 left 1 Governments; Executive and private Jets 3 AERO K 5 AIRASIA 1 ALLEGIANT AIR 3 AVIATION CAPITAL GROUP 3 CALC 1 CASC 7 GECAS 1 GLOBAL AIRCRAFT TRADING 6 IRAN AIR 9 LUFTHANSA 4 MEXICANA 6 PEACH 6 SPIRIT AIRLINES 7 URAL AIR 22 UNDISCLOSED
A321, 94 left 1 AIR LEASE CORPORATION 1 CEBU PACIFIC AIR 62 DELTA AIR LINES 7 IRAN AIR 1 JETBLUE AIRWAYS 1 LATAM AIRLINES GROUP 8 UTAIR AVIATION 3 VIETJET AIR 8 WIZZ AIR HUNGARY 2 UNDISCLOSED
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Post by FabienA380 on Dec 8, 2018 9:24:51 GMT 1
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Post by marlibu on Dec 9, 2018 0:25:09 GMT 1
We are more than likely using Official documentation from Airbus. Can we really count the Iran Order? for the record, i am not starting another discussion or trying to subvert this one.. just really wondering if it's really worth considering.
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Post by sciing on Dec 9, 2018 8:15:33 GMT 1
We are more than likely using Official documentation from Airbus. Can we really count the Iran Order? for the record, i am not starting another discussion or trying to subvert this one.. just really wondering if it's really worth considering. There are a bunch of unlikely orders, not only Iran. Fell free to comment.
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