philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Nov 21, 2019 11:01:39 GMT 1
Thank you, bmw801 ! Given the number of aircraft concerned, the required retrofit may turn out be extremely costly. Costly for the airlines, everybody else could actually earn some money producing and selling conversion sets. Adds to the cost running an NG compared to the A320ceo. Mostly but not only for the airlines, in my opinion. I guess quite a lot of -NG are still covered by manufacturer guarantees. |
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Nov 21, 2019 14:14:20 GMT 1
Costly for the airlines, everybody else could actually earn some money producing and selling conversion sets. Adds to the cost running an NG compared to the A320ceo. Mostly but not only for the airlines, in my opinion. I guess quite a lot of -NG are still covered by manufacturer guarantees. I hardly believe that any but the newest frames are covered by manufacturers guarantees. What are the guaranty time frame, 6 month? I think the wing crack issue on the A380 are an exception to the normal rule. A new frame many potential orders in jeopardy. Boeing does not sell the NG any longer. We have been locking at a lot of needed upgrades for certain frames, like 747-400 tank inerting systems for example, that had to be added to frames. Usually the airline has to pay. Often it leads to older frames are being scrapped. |
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Nov 21, 2019 15:21:14 GMT 1
I hardly believe that any but the newest frames are covered by manufacturers guarantees. What are the guaranty time frame, 6 month? Your estimate is very far from industry practice. Think that even customer goods often enjoy a one year guarantee. As regards aircraft, the manufacturer warranty spans several years. I tried to find an exemple on line, and happened on what appears to be a contract between Boeing and Airtran. Here is an excerpt from the warranty clauses. Of course, I cannot vouch for the status or authenticity of the document ! www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/948846/000119312503081318/dex101.htm"3. Warranty Periods.
3.1 Warranty. The warranty period begins on the date of aircraft or Boeing Product delivery and ends: (i) after 48 months for Boeing aircraft models 777-200, -300 or 737-600, -700, -800, -900 or new aircraft models designed and manufactured with similar, new technology; or, (ii) after 36 months for any other Boeing aircraft model". |
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Nov 21, 2019 16:29:38 GMT 1
I hardly believe that any but the newest frames are covered by manufacturers guarantees. What are the guaranty time frame, 6 month? Your estimate is very far from industry practice. Think that even customer goods often enjoy a one year guarantee. As regards aircraft, the manufacturer warranty spans several years. I tried to find an exemple on line, and happened on what appears to be a contract between Boeing and Airtran. Here is an excerpt from the warranty clauses. Of course, I cannot vouch for the status or authenticity of the document ! www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/948846/000119312503081318/dex101.htm"3. Warranty Periods.
3.1 Warranty. The warranty period begins on the date of aircraft or Boeing Product delivery and ends: (i) after 48 months for Boeing aircraft models 777-200, -300 or 737-600, -700, -800, -900 or new aircraft models designed and manufactured with similar, new technology; or, (ii) after 36 months for any other Boeing aircraft model". Would still mean that the mass of 737NG are out of warranty if we look at 4 years. How many frames are out of warranty if and when the AD comes? |
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Post by kevin5345179 on Nov 21, 2019 22:12:05 GMT 1
Your estimate is very far from industry practice. Think that even customer goods often enjoy a one year guarantee. As regards aircraft, the manufacturer warranty spans several years. I tried to find an exemple on line, and happened on what appears to be a contract between Boeing and Airtran. Here is an excerpt from the warranty clauses. Of course, I cannot vouch for the status or authenticity of the document ! www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/948846/000119312503081318/dex101.htm"3. Warranty Periods.
3.1 Warranty. The warranty period begins on the date of aircraft or Boeing Product delivery and ends: (i) after 48 months for Boeing aircraft models 777-200, -300 or 737-600, -700, -800, -900 or new aircraft models designed and manufactured with similar, new technology; or, (ii) after 36 months for any other Boeing aircraft model". Would still mean that the mass of 737NG are out of warranty if we look at 4 years. How many frames are out of warranty if and when the AD comes? I'm a bit surprise the cost will be with airline. Considering it is design flaw. I was expecting something like the auto industry of recall -> cost is with OEM |
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Post by peter on Nov 22, 2019 11:08:49 GMT 1
Would still mean that the mass of 737NG are out of warranty if we look at 4 years. How many frames are out of warranty if and when the AD comes? I'm a bit surprise the cost will be with airline. Considering it is design flaw. I was expecting something like the auto industry of recall -> cost is with OEM Yes of course the cost is Boeing's. If, for example, the fuelpump of your Ford or Toyota has the risk of catching fire because of a faulty design, the manufacturer will replace that defective part free of charge. Faulty designs on aircraft are being treated exactly the same way. It's called good entrepreneurship and the result is satisfied customers. |
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mjoelnir
in service - 2 years
Posts: 4,089
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Post by mjoelnir on Nov 22, 2019 15:41:54 GMT 1
I'm a bit surprise the cost will be with airline. Considering it is design flaw. I was expecting something like the auto industry of recall -> cost is with OEM Yes of course the cost is Boeing's. If, for example, the fuelpump of your Ford or Toyota has the risk of catching fire because of a faulty design, the manufacturer will replace that defective part free of charge. Faulty designs on aircraft are being treated exactly the same way. It's called good entrepreneurship and the result is satisfied customers. I do not agree. The airlines bought a at that time certified product. If we compare it for example with the tank inerting system on the 747. It was mandated in regards to TWA flight 800, were the cause was defined as an fuel vapor explosion in a fuel tank. I have never heard that Boeing paid the fuel inerting system, I rather heard that some 747 were retired by airlines, because it was to expensive to install system. |
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Post by addasih on Nov 24, 2019 5:54:29 GMT 1
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Post by kevin5345179 on Nov 29, 2019 15:13:14 GMT 1
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Baroque
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,991
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Post by Baroque on Nov 29, 2019 15:52:01 GMT 1
Boeing has to take part of the responsibility in some way or risk jeopardising their customer relationships. They should probably give discounts on future purchases to account for this. |
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