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Post by pa380scal on Mar 18, 2018 22:31:39 GMT 1
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Mar 18, 2018 23:57:21 GMT 1
Almost all engine projects meet some serious problems at some stage, whatever the manufacturer. Firing people would only make matters worse.
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Post by gla1967 on Mar 19, 2018 3:54:32 GMT 1
Ultimately this could cause people to lose their jobs, not the people responsible for the GTF issues but the employees of Airlines suffering from loss of passenger confidence due to safety concerns and flight cancellations, there have been over 1000 flight cancellations as a direct result. The NEO programme has become a Ratners moment for the A320 which has been a fantastic success story until now. Airbus must take some blame for poor supplier management and poor quality control. Time will tell if P&W can absorb the massive financial penalties. Don’t forget the temporary fix is a reversion to a seal that has known flaws so these too will need replacement once a workable fix is found. Airbus 320 deliveries are likely to be well below previous years Q1 results, I think they are going to need two Decembers this year to catch up!
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Mar 19, 2018 10:21:05 GMT 1
What a misinformed, ill-advised comment ! As if the PW 1100G, an innovative product with (at least !) a 15-years useful life, was going to lose sales because a seal was found to be defective, and eleven (!) aircraft sold to two Indian airlines had to be grounded until a new seal is supplied ! Fortunately, engines are bought by professionals, not by the general public. Not a single airline has said it is shifting to the competing engine (unlike what many believe, even QR has said nothing about its A321neo engine choice, though the press assumed they would shift to the LEAP). That's because ... Well, because all engines have problems, and because this is an excellent one. To give an exemple, Turkish Airlines recently selected the P&W engine for its large A321 fleet. Customer airlines are not losing a single dollar : they are compensated by P&W, that's how the contracts are written. Of course, this is costing them a lot of money, but all aviation business is based on long term profitability. They'll be fine. But nothing will stop self-proclaimed aviation 'fans' from crying 'shame on them', 'ground them', or 'bankruptcy' ! Perhaps you could try to read a well-informed piece. I suggest the following. leehamnews.com/2018/03/14/pratt-whitneys-indian-trouble/A final comment : if I understand correctly, a Ratner's moment refers to stupid self-criticising communication about one's products. I didn't notice any such moment in the P&W saga.
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someone
in service - 1 year
Posts: 3,334
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Post by someone on Mar 19, 2018 12:42:52 GMT 1
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Post by gla1967 on Mar 19, 2018 22:45:32 GMT 1
Good evening, Wow what a welcome to the blog
Thanks for the Leeham link I had already seen it.. Nice to know everything is fine and dandy.. “Tis but a scratch” as the Black Knight said. I really hope that there is 15 years life in these engines although at the present rate it is becoming more like Trigger’s broom with 15 new heads and 19 new handles.
Seriously I sincerely hope that all turns out well and these issues are resolved to everyone’s satisfaction the GTF is at least on paper an exciting innovation.
I think one would be extremely naive to think that P&W, Airbus or their customers have not or will not have suffered from at the very least some reputational damage as a result of the P&W NEO engine saga. Time will tell if this adversely affects the product sales.
My post was factually correct.
Some additional facts
Spice jet, Indigo’s main competitor are close to confirming an order for 155 Leap engined 737 max’s
3 more Indigo NEO’s from outwith the original 8 have been grounded this weekend, which means a 3rd of their NEO fleet are out of action.
Indigo are cancelling 36 flights a day as a direct result.
Oh and by the way I am not an aviation fan and I have no allegiance any particular manufacturer.
I did not come on this blog for your advice.
It is an open forum where one can respectfully express comment.
I have not advocated grounding, bankruptcy or cry shame on them I have no agenda.
Can you really say, hand on heart that the introduction of the P&W NEO has been a well managed success?
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Mar 21, 2018 16:39:34 GMT 1
Gla1967, your latest post, reminding me of the Monty Python and introducing the Trigger's broom paradox, was pleasant to read. Yet, however interesting, these cultural references are hardly more relevant to our discussion than your purported Ratner's moment. Instead, one would have expected from you an attempt at providing at least a semblance of technical basis for your harsh assertions. Unfortunately you elected to disregard the facts.
You claim your first post was factually correct, but that post did not bother with facts, it was a pure one-sided opinion piece, suggesting doom and gloom for P&W and even its customers, without any supporting arguments.
Unfortunately, engine problems unfolding after entry into service are a common occurrence in aviation. All engine providers have encountered many of them, and have eventually fixed them.
However frustrating the latest PW 1100 G problem may be, fixing it is by no means a daunting task. In an attempt to improve durability of one component, about fifty engines fitted with a new faulty seal were delivered to some customers. These seals have to be replaced, but an already fully tested short term replacement is available, which means that any disturbance in customer operations will be short-lived. Though you rightly point out that a longer term fix will have to be designed, the only known weakness of the short term replacement is insufficient durability, so that P&W has a lot of time to develop and test a new component.
This is therefore a comparatively minor issue, even though, for two Indian P&W customers, it has short term consequences. You deliberately elected to overblow them, suggesting that P&W might go under with its unlucky customers. I had the feeling of reading a British tabloid, but you might alternatively have found inspiration in some Indian newspapers.
You asked me whether I could really say ‘hand on heart that the introduction of the P&W NEO has been a well managed success?’. Of course, I would not say that, and I don’t think anybody would, since reliability over the last two years has been disappointing. This however is not our topic : we are considering the future, not the past. As you should know, the latter is often a poor predictor of the former. P&W has been struggling, but any unbiased observer would also take into account the important improvements that have already been implemented.
I would say that P&W’s remaining issues appear much more easy to address than, for instance, those Rolls-Royce is facing on the Trent 1000 (787) and the Trent 900 (A380). Anyhow, past experience strongly suggests that both manufacturers will get on top of their respective issues.
A final word on one of the ‘facts’ you quoted. SpiceJet buying the 737 MAX over the A320neo last year – and possibly increasing its order in the future - is irrelevant to our discussion. The engines are hardly a factor in the decision, since the LEAP engine is available on both aircraft (there is actually no other choice on the MAX). Furthermore, how could SpiceJet, an all-Boeing jet operator recently rescued from the verge of bankruptcy with the American manufacturer’s help, order any jet other than a Boeing ?
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Mar 22, 2018 16:37:14 GMT 1
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Post by kevin5345179 on Apr 4, 2018 2:00:48 GMT 1
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someone
in service - 1 year
Posts: 3,334
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Post by someone on Apr 4, 2018 12:43:49 GMT 1
That should result in some rather busy delivery months this Summer
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