K
spotted unpainted on the Flight Line (waiting for painting)
Posts: 1,152
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Post by K on Dec 23, 2015 17:11:29 GMT 1
We may not need to know, only to remember every single a/c in the agreement will become FIRM..as philidor said at any time!  |
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s543
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,959 
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Post by s543 on Dec 23, 2015 18:05:46 GMT 1
Philidor - I understand the process theoretically - no problem here but as we well know from this and last and one back TSA - the numbers from the TSA and than the final orders from the airbus XLS (let's consider this official) never agree.
That is the point.
i.e. when a TSA is published we do believe that in some time in the future orders of AT LEAST those published numbers will appear. We know that hose numbers GROSSLY does not fit.
We know that AB treats those Chinese orders differently than BO.
BO has HUGE numbers of undisclosed orders, OK some are private customers, some are someone else but those are small minority. AB has much less of those but on the end AB and BO share the Chinese huge market more-less half/half.... so ?
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Dec 23, 2015 18:31:14 GMT 1
I am afraid only an Airbus insider could break out in advance government-announced numbers into a list of companies and orders.
Each interested party follows their own rules : the government has its own legal system, Airbus must stick to a stable methodology when issuing firm orders updates, customers have their own set of rules, and may ask their identity to be witheld.
The practical consequence is that everything will be clear ... at some point in the future. It's not entirely different from 'orders and commitments' totals.
As regards Boeing, the large number of undisclosed orders might be a consequence of their own booking practices. Are they booking firm orders when signed, even before all suspensive clauses have expired ? Nothing wrong if they do, the main point is a stable methodology.
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s543
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,959
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Post by s543 on Dec 24, 2015 10:35:54 GMT 1
Here I do agree - we only differ slightly - I do not believe that even Airbus knows in the time of TSA signature who will get what exactly. It clears up during the time.
Up to that I do believe that as the "de-governmentisation" of Chinese economy progress this whole peculiarity will start to disappear.
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philidor
in service - 6 years
Posts: 8,950
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Post by philidor on Dec 24, 2015 13:08:10 GMT 1
Here I do agree - we only differ slightly - I do not believe that even Airbus knows in the time of TSA signature who will get what exactly. It clears up during the time. I am quite sure Airbus knows every detail because these had to be inked with companies before the government officialised the global agreement. What they may have been unsure of is when this officialisation would take place. Again, what does not happen nowadays is the central government ordering planes and later distributing them. Though the government likes to emphasise its own decision-making authority, it has learnt, a long time ago, not to anticipate on deals between planemakers and airlines. I think the last time they tried to sign an unbacked central deal was some twenty years ago, when Chancellor Kohl was visiting China. A firm contract for the purchase of six A340s was signed, so that the Chancellor be satisfied of the outcome of his trip. Actually no Chinese airline had backed the deal, no airline was ready to take delivery, and the government could not force them to take - and pay for - unwanted aircraft. I remember from personal experience that years later Airbus was still desperately trying to convince Chinese airlines to accept the aircraft. Now, the system is clear, you may talk with the government, but close a deal with an airline first, then let the government decide how and when it is officialised. I expect however more involvement from the central government on behalf of COMAC when the C919 becomes actually available. |
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Post by bmw801 on Jan 7, 2016 4:13:31 GMT 1
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sciing
in service - 1 year
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Posts: 2,503
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Post by sciing on Jan 7, 2016 9:15:01 GMT 1
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Post by Shadow123 on Jan 7, 2016 10:19:41 GMT 1
They still selling A320ceo?
Wehen are they going to stopp selling slots for the ceo?
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K
spotted unpainted on the Flight Line (waiting for painting)
Posts: 1,152
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Post by K on Jan 7, 2016 11:43:29 GMT 1
I guess ceo-neo convertion deal happens all the time.
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s543
in service - 2 years
Posts: 3,959
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Post by s543 on Jan 7, 2016 12:06:03 GMT 1
It seems there is a slow down in the neo right now + the conversion flow is large, why not sell them if there is interest ?
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